That is simply not true
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Well said
Firmware updates should be for extra features, bug fixes, easter eggs and/or perhaps 3rd party applications eg Traktor, Serato, Virtual DJ integration. They or 3rd party can charge for that if they need the extra revenue to cover cost of 3rd party support (its a business decision)
I usually factor in a 9-12 months waiting period post launch date before buying which i believe is enough time for bug fixes etc…seems i’m having an outlier with Engine Prime.
For a flagship take over the dj world product…its pretty uncool.
Hopefully the current “sprint” is nearing the finish line, i do hope the next update addresses many basic features that should have been there from product launch.
I don’t think i will be able to wait for another “sprint” to get under way.
Still can’t believe we are having to wait almost 2/3 years for better bpm algorithm and a way to efficiently correct wrong bpm values…Other than playing music files what else is a dj software meant to do?
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I’m more worried about intermodulation distortion than high frequency roll off, more worried about jog bend performance than beat gridding, and more worried about getting good firmwares than getting them more frequently. In a perfect world we’d get everything we want immediately, but in the real world there are trade offs and the big one is often time.
Well the biggest one for sure is the dreaded high end roll off. The SC5000 is far from performing as advertised there. Then there is the the loop-cue issue were the player goes out of sync when you press a cue inside a loop - after the last update that only happens in the last bar of the cue 
Then of course there is also general bug fixing for problems that randomly occur. I guess other users could add to that list.
Very importantly the players are advertised as “stand alone” - and they are not. Yes they can analyze tracks, but if that fails you’re lost. Also until now there is no library management whatsoever. So as a result in the real world you absolutely need to use Engine Prime on a computer, which to get rid off is the whole purpose of a stand alone player. I realized this only after finding out what isn’t in the manual. And I went through it quickly before buying the player.
I don’t want to open all the issues, just to point out that there are still things missing to make the SC5000 working as intended.
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So everything advertised is there… just not the way you want it … yet
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I, for one, am not lost if a player cannot analyze my tracks exactly right or if its desktop analysis software is not perfect. All I use Engine Prime for is to create the searchable database, and it’s not essential and is subject to future improvements. Do the players have the ability to create this searchable database on their own of all the tracks on a drive? I honestly haven’t even bothered checking.
NTFS read-only drive support was also advertised from the beginning but has recently been removed from the specs. I assume they needed stuff to be stored on your drive for all the desired features to function, so they eventually just dropped it and their left hand didn’t know their right hand had written it into the original engineering goals. It would have been nice to have. Gemini can do it. The 2900/3900 apparently can do it, though I never tested that feature on them. I got the 5500s instead, after all. Pioneer not bothering with it was probably a deciding factor.
They originally advertised the players’ response and, you’re right, technically we’re only getting the equivalent of a 30khz player (or worse) versus a 96khz player right now and about 100X the intermodulation distortion of the industry standard. IMD is worse-sounding than odd-order harmonic distortion which is worse than even-order harmonic distortion. Tube gear can get away with even-order harmonics because it can sweeten sound. Effects gear that add IMD are literally termed “distortion”, like certain guitar pedals. One could argue that’s not entirely consistent with advertising as a pro audio product, but it’s software and software can be improved, right?
Just curious…have you been contacted for a job yet? You should seriously consider sending in a CV. Except you dont fancy moving to New Zealand.
PS What style of DJ you are…just interested in knowing.
I play pop charts, hip hop, rnb …everything from ABBA to Zara Larson. I am dependent on correct BPM to navigate those.
I’ve never been contacted for a job from InMusic. I think I sent something into them years ago. I doubt they’d hire me. I’m an MBA guy who DJs on the side and is getting another masters degree now. I’m not an EE or a coder. My height of electronics expertise was soldering in some new power caps on a Goodwill PPD01 and soldering in new raw faders to a Pioneer mixer. That sort of terrified me and I’m surprised I pulled it off. I’m pretty good at finding problems with gear and strategizing, though, but IMO a lot of the latter is Monday morning quarterbacking and the benefit of hindsight. I honestly can’t tell you for sure how I would have handled this roll-out and the updates if I was in their shoes from the start, because I wasn’t. I’m also probably wrong about my understanding of harmonic distortion.
I play all sorts of music, though I often tend to prefer playing breakbeat, trance, techno, house, and that sort of stuff. In the little venue I manage the sound system for, I’m increasingly playing a lot of pop remixes and hip hop, too. I don’t bother knowing the BPMs on them, as I just tend to run through them pretty rapidly loading and listening until I find some I like that are relatively close together in tempo I can hear. Sometimes I’m just coming up with songs I think should sound good together and then have to rapidly hunt for the matching song.
I don’t have a problem with New Zealand… other than the giant spiders and killer hobbits, right? Thought the hobbits were down there. The opening of the NZ place as far as I’ve heard appears to be about trying to recruit their coders and electronics people to work at a kind of tech hub, like an expansion of InMusic. Their HQ is still in RI, USA as far as I know.
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You may never know till you try…could be QC or something.
That’s impressive. 30years.
Anyways, one less day for the update. 
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We used roadies for that! They wanted to enter a club for free, so they needed to carry the vinyl cases. 
Couldn’t do that getting on a flight though - that was the worst feeling every time waiting for your box to come around on the carousel 
Not that I DJ abroad anymore, but USBs are so much better for sanity, if not sonically
Whoa you must have nerves of steel @yeltsin . I once had an airline offer me a huge, huge flight credit thing if I would check my crate ( it was a euro crate and could fit easily in the overhead ) which had already been put in overhead. No. Way. 
Niaive and stupid mate, but playing 8-10 hour sets I needed enough vinyl!
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What kind of flight cases did you use ? Ever see a trashed crate of yours come through pickup ? I’d imagine that it was kind of rare to have well made crates actually get damaged.
I’m also certifiably nuts when it comes to record/vinyl anxiety. I even kicked my vinyl buying habit for about 10 years…all it took was just one new record and the vinyl monkey is on my back again.
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I’m back to vinyl as well. Sold my 1210s about 15 years ago, for £200, got back into mixing with a VCI-300, then went Pioneer, then Denon and bought some more 1210s for £700 
I just love a vinyl spin from time to time.
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Very nice. My 1200 mk2s got stolen in 2005, but now I have three 1200 mk2s all of which have been totally refurbished/rewired by a veritable giant in the world of SL - 1200MK2 /etc. re-pair and rejuvenation (Ken Paul…). All new (insert fancy japanese wiring brand) cables, totally cleaned internally piece by piece, and had the search lights replaced with brighter LEDs (it’s the only non-spec mod this guy is willing to do - he’s a purist) . And internally grounded (“the correct way using the Second positron matrix” thingy and not the one DIY kits use?) which is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
And since I have three turntables, I;m obviously recording buying for three now…So like the man says: “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!” 
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Discogs is a disaster for the bank account…
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@yeltsin AMEN to that my friend…discogs is the devil. (As I switch over from my discogs browser tab that is actually a comprehensive folder of discogs bookmarks showing me about 50 possible search string results “so I don’t miss something important”)
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The main thing and only thing of concern for me, is that we are late with being able to create/save a playlist all via the players, been asked for and was hinted that was on its way near a year ago now or their about, we now see it on the new controller so I feel kind of left out, I went for the high end at cost, now dropped a lot in price and I could have just got the P4 at a much cheaper cost in theory less the time aspect lol, so what I am saying too me less a couple of things effects wise the new P4 is better than their flagship SC5000 and for one simple reason overall I would not have to use my laptop much if at all, this has always since day one been my main request for the SC and now I obviously see its on the new All in one P4, so me personally I can wait for the bells and whistles but this is a major letdown still, should this have not been first updated on the SC5000 Instead, I am presuming they have gone straight in on this with the new P4 so it is fundamentally implemented with that tech in mind, all I can do is hope that its the similar and wont be long now for this on the SC5000 to bring us this, I hardly use my SC5000’s because this KillJoy Lack of integration within the units for creating/saving playlist, its just not fun I hate it with this missing link, I should have just stuck with a DJ controller in the first place.
This is not meant in any way as a stupid pointless threat to hurry up, but its been a long time now and I am ready for cutting my loss and going back to a controller, I was about to get the X1800 next month. But anyhow DAM you! I say in jest, the new All in one is the best hardware option available, so I just don’t know what too do now, I will just be happy knowing that in the near future we will receive this major addition to the sc5000 if not it would be a travesty, so do I wait, can this be confirmed again Denon ? do I sell up for the New P4 or go back to Cross DJ the best dj software in the world for finesse I could argue. I really am at the point I can do much better with software and a controller much cheaper than I have invested now and no more wasted time because I get tired creativity wise with the flow going back and too from Engine prime to the SC every single set and using my Mouse until my hand is aching like never before lol.
But overall I agree with Engell saying: This has been commented many times, and even though Paul has ‘promised’ regular updates, nothings seems to happen.
For me I have spoken to others at Denon and info fed back to the mods that certain things are on the way, we still wait and my enthusiasm is now dampened for this product. anyhow all the best for the P4 and long live the SC5000 AND X1800 I am hoping with firmware updates in mind.
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