Firmware update thoughts


#1

When can we expect the next firmware update?

I was hoping denon would differ from native instruments on how much time lays between two firmware verslons but it doesn’t seems like that. And that kinda upsets me…

People are waiting for some important bug fixes (audio performance) and were promised a solutions to this and several other issues several months ago… Taking this long to release an update… not the most clever thing customer wise…

Give us some intermediate updates solving issues one by one or bundled and do not wait for a release that solves like fifty bugs at once.

Keep your customers happy… Especially those who paid 5k plus for a system.

Same goes for the engine prime software… faulty bmp detection, UI issues, not being able to fine tune beatgrids the way it should work… This is the eco system for all your products. Please fix these issues and do not keep your customers waiting if you want denon to gain market share …

Potential customers looking to buy a prime system will have a look on the forum. They will read about the audio issue and the engine prime issues. Reading that these will be solved in future updates for months now will not give them the confidence they expect as these updates are still not available.

The audio issue should have been resolved as soon as a fix was available. That way potential customers would see denon is keeping their future investments up to date and listened to its customers…


#2

This has been commented many times, and even though Paul has ‘promissed’ regular updates, nothings seems to happen. I understand that Denon has alot of focus on the P4 launch so we can only Hope that the regular updates starts after that launch.

But what is regular updates? Taking a look in the rearview Denon mirror it would be something like 2 updates a year. And I’m not trying to be harsh in my comment…just plain experience this far.

But that said, I hope to be proven wrong :raised_hands:


#3

I’m also desperately itching for the next update. But there is no point in rushing things. I much prefer Denon getting it right this time.

All companies are facing the very same problems. Complexity is the issue.


#4

Sadly i’m agree with you and i think lot of people think the same thing ! Don’t understand why it’s take so long and why Denon don’t release small update with only bug fix every month until there are no bug and AFTER we have some new features ?

it’s been two years since 2017 and we still have this problem with audio quality the high end roll and the output too high, inconsitent jogwheel, buildquality and longevity not as good as the Pioneer CDJ Nexus 2 (Lof of problems with some users ) , not the possibility to class by Date/Years/Rating, Unwanted speed, no Traktor support HID, corrupt database error… Engine Prime still have lot of features missing and some big bugs …


#5

The problem with giving a date is that you then set yourself up for disappointing everyone when there is an issue and development can’t meet the deadline.

Most technology companies are in the same boat. There are a large number of ideas and requests that come in every week from all of us users. The dev team has to consider and prioritize all of them. They then have two column to start with, 1 will be bug fixes, the 2nd will be “enhancements” (this is just a start). They then need to prioritize each of these sets and sit and go through them to see what it will actually take for the dev team to implement them. If you’re catching my drift, it’s not as easy as everyone thinks. They don’t tackle one bug or one enhancement (feature request) and roll it out. They work in sprints. This is just an abbreviated version of how this works behind the scenes to give you an idea. Now consider the dev team accomplished what they set out to and agreed to, now our updates go to QC (Quality Control), let’s say an issue is found with either the bugs or a “new” bug or a new bug with the “new” feature added. They send it back to Dev. Dev looks at it and addresses it if they can and come back to QC. QC tests it again…All this before you and I see it. Now take in to consideration how many dev and QC guys they have dedicated to the Prime series and what their budget is. As a company, I am sure they would love to make everyone happy by pushing out updates frequently but to be honest, it’s a goal very few companies achieve and their bankroll is massive and none of them are DJ companies :slight_smile:

Besides what I said above, note that if an issue was preventing the players/mixer’s main function to not work, you would see an update come out to address that one issue but since the players all work (they play tracks) and the mixer works (sound comes out), and one “can” function with them, these things will get addressed in a batch and released together not one or two at a time.

Described the work flow above already so this wouldn’t happen IMO.

I would imagine in todays market they want to but it’s just the nature of the beast. Competition is not any different either.

I am writing this to you not to ■■■■ you off or to annoy you but to educate you on these things that I have learned from my day job (I work in the gambling industry and handle these challenges internally and with my customers). I know it’s tough but we just have to hang in there. They have said a few items are coming and a few are being looked at. That itself is more than most companies let on. Believe me, overpromising and under delivering is worse. You would not want them to give you a date or make a commitment and then come back and keep delaying.

As mentioned, I don’t work for Denon but am familiar with how these things work so if I am wrong, they can correct me and know that this is all my opinion and experience.

Cheers


#6

Dont agree with you on this part… Take VDJ, yes they dont make hardware, but almost every single time I opened VDJ when I had my MCX8000 there was a update with bugfixes, new features etc.

By far the Best update ratio by any company ever.

I think the ‘issue’ is that Denon says one Thing… You will experience regular updates… But nothings happen at all.

What have we had now… 3 or 4 updates in almost 2 years for the SC5000 and 1 for the X-1800? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I can handle it. :slightly_smiling_face:


#7

No offense taken …

I myselve work as a audio development engineer at a tier 1 automotive supplier so i know everything about development cycles etc.

As i understand your way of thinking then AMG would do nothing if there new top range 600bhp car would only do 90kmh. Main goal of a car is to drive people ftom point a to b. If it is at 90kmh maximum it does what it is designed for. So customers should not complain about this…

If you validate each bugfix individually instead of trying to validate 50 bugs at the same time it will take more effort but it will satisfy you customer base. On the end it is your customer base that pays their wages and development costs .


#8

THIS ! ONE UPDATE for X1800 even the Xone DB4 have more than 3 firmware update in 2012 for the first year

2update/years is not a good ratio… I’m not a beta tester and lot of people are laughing about Engine Prime which is absolutely not at the level of Rekordbox even in 2019


#9

I understand what you are getting at but to me it seems like comparing apples to oranges. All I was pointing out was that the kit can, as it stands, function for a DJ to DJ with. This is more like my heated seat doesn’t work right kind of situation :slight_smile:

Don’t get me wrong either, I would love to be wrong and see frequent updates, I just seem to be understanding of what they have to go through. In my line of work, we never ever please everyone; there is always going to be unhappy customers but some will appreciate the struggle once they understand but what I wrote to you above, I could never fully explain to a customer as they wouldn’t want to hear it so again, i get where you’re coming from. It’s a tough situation and the way i see it, if I support and back this company, hopefully they will have enough success to dedicate more resources (not to say that is the current case as it would be speculation).


#10

@Engell You’ll have to forgive me as I am really not that familiar with VDJ as a company and will take your word for it. Once thing I did think in my head as I read though was “why are they not as popular as Traktor and Serato then?” Either way, to get in to that would be getting sidetracked from the original post so let’s leave it be as it would not make any difference to the current situation. I personally would only expect this of Denon if their main competition was better but that’s just me. I know a lot of Traktor users were mad that no real updates had come out for a while too but to me, the Traktor software was complete and still to this day works flawlessly for me and many others.

I understand that certain expectations were set early on but perhaps Denon, like the company I work for, realized what I described later and not at the time they set and announced their goals.

I am certain we will see an update very soon with the arrival of the Prime 4 as the ecosystems are the same.


#11

I know it’s not really a direct comparison but as a VDJ user for many years I have to say that Atomix are so different to Denon. Any bugs I report direct to the developer are fixed if not straight away then certainly in the next build. there is a new release every 3 weeks maximum.

This is not having a go at Denon but simple facts. Prime is way behind where it should be, The SC5000 roll off fix was promised months ago and the length of time it took for the MCX80000 2.0 firmware beta to conclude was shocking.

I wouldn’t even take a SC5000 setup for free to be honest right now.


#12

I came from a bunch of issues with the MCX8000, was told that if I bought the Prime system, I would experience better service, updates and so on.

I believed them and spend almost $6k on this setup, experiencing the same lack of updates and not fixed issues.

Its cool if people have money to keep supporting, in hope of that some day they will have enough succes to dedicate more ressource, but in the meantime My own ressource are getting low and so is my will to support in future equipment. I have the SC5000S and the X-1800 now, and I love them, but after 2 years, and still those ‘basic’ fixes are not adressed, despite promisses for more frequent/regular updates, that are not happening, just makes me wonder what kind of time do they live by at Denon.

But I would loooove to see something happen soon - and frequent. Almost only used Denon gear since i startet in the 90s.


#13

Nail on the head. I would give it a month or so. After Prime4 is generally available things should settle down.

I agree on most answers here, because it definitely could be faster or just with shorter smaller release cycles.

Result: lesser filled topics; lesser topic repeats; better overall product-future-feel; larger industry support etc.


#14

I think that you actually would be surprised to know how many worldwide uses this software and the functionalities are wild! Unforgently it has a rumor of being a bedroom dj-software, but there are like no other software on the market today with the same amount of features and that supports the same amount of controllers.

But you are right, its not what the original post is about. Back 2 topic :slight_smile:


#15

If they do not fix the prime 4 issues first as this is a more mainstream product than our beloved prime equipment. That is my main concern @Reese.

Hope someone from denon is picking this up. Seems there is a lot of frustration and it is only growing …


#16

Yes there is. Very much.


#17

don’t take this too serious……

I’m afraid it is al our mistake, almost every day I see request for changes, additions etc.

Could it be that the Denon dev team is trying to keep up with all the different requests and thus will not be able to finish as; “hey there is another change request let’s also add this……”

Not sure if this is the reason, maybe we all should try not to post any new requests or report new issues for a couple of weeks and maybe then the team will be able to develop, test and bring to market…


#18

There are a core set of requests that have been the same back pretty far.

But let me stress. It’s mostly Engine Prime that’s keeping my setup at home currently. And it’s kinda killing me that it’s that way.


#19

I think most of us take this very serious and so should denon. If you say “change your rider” how do you want people to do this if the basics do not get addressed and fixed. How do you ever expect people to switch from pioneer to denon with the high end roll off issue? Howdoyou ever expect people to switch when you can not set a beat Grid correctly in the library management tool?

The reason I changed from NI to denon was a presentation of the new prime hardware. Promises about Traktor import, we hear what our customers ask for etc were done.


#20

I would also say that we are quite serious as alot of us actually has spend almost $6K on a setup as normal consumers.