Showstoppers and Issues with SC5000M

Here is a list of showstopper’s and issues we have with our SC5000m’s. Does by anyone else some of these problems occur too? What do you think, are these hardwarebased or Software related bugs?

  • Player hangs up sporadically and nothing can be operated. Restart of the player only via hard reset (remove power)
  • Player sometimes hangs for a fraction of a second, playback stops, Engine OS logo appears briefly, player is resetting itself, DJ performance is interrupted / recording is unusable
  • Player resets completely during a set and takes some time to restart. DJ performance interrupted / recording unusable
  • Player often loses LAN connectivity / LAN connection or the linked drives, direct connect from player to player. Lan cable checked with cable tester. Replacing the cables or alternatively using a hub did not change anything
  • Use of SD cards only read only in the linked player
  • motorized platter stops, the song continues, but the rest of the player does not respond anymore. Pressing the motor button stops the track. Restart the player only with a hard reset (remove power)
  • Touchscreen often does not respond or lags
  • Eject button sporadically no function / drives cannot be ejected correctly
  • Built-in select / load pots with different haptics
  • Motorized Platter has a slight imbalance
  • Instant doubles does not work every now and then or does not find the second player
  • During a set, the following message with an exclamation mark sometimes appears: Streaming Quality mismatch: Players must be set to the same streaming quality to instant double
  • Vibration in live environment causes all connected USB drives to be logged off (disconnect and reconnect)
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ive had mines for like a few weeks now. and have not had any of these issues BUT maybe because i “only” use VDJ. no sd, no hard driver, no flash drives. just use in computer mode and everything works just fine

I use the M’s for 3 years now - never had a single one of these problems… or Your decks took a serious abuse or there is something wrong with them, that needs service attention. @Reese - should we ask someone from the staff to have a look at this?

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Yeah perhaps @JWiLL can chip in?

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Both units was send in to Denon Service Germany. After test they answered the following:

*In the event customers experience any issues with their products within the warranty term, under their limited warranty they will receive a free of charge warranty inspection with our service team. If a manufacturing defect can be found, goods will be repaired or replaced with a like-for-like item, at the sole discretion of inMusic - the manufacturer. If a fault cannot be found by our service team, goods will be returned as “Fully Tested – No Fault Found”. For more information on what is covered under warranty, please refer to the safety and warranty information booklet provided with your product.

In this particular instance, our service team have carried out a warranty inspection on your X1800 mixer and SC5000M players. All units were inspected by our qualified service engineers. When running their tests, all of your products were tested using our internal diagnostic app which tests all functions of your PRIME setup; and will indicate if there are any hardware failures. Following this, our engineers tested your set up inline with the fault descriptions originally provided and carried out subsequent soak tests to monitor performance and ensure the products were working consistently.

During these tests a fault was found with your X1800 mixer. This will therefore be replaced with a brand new one as a warranty replacement. No faults were found with your SC5000M’s and thus the results of our manufacture inspection is that these units are Fully Tested – No Fault Found.

These units will be returned accordingly and should be back with you before the weekend as requested.*

in the follow up I wrote:

It goes without saying that I’m pretty upset about the way, the hassle and the constant delays. It borders on cheek how the whole case is handled. Please escalate it to the Denon headquarters because this can´t be in their strategy, pls report to me. Denon DJ Support is quite not helpful, except obviously in preventing customers from getting their rights. I contacted the dealer directly instead of Denon. This took place immediately after purchase/delivery in November. Look at the screenshot retailers answer.

What should the customer do, if the dealer contacts Denon to fulfill the replacement as a solution instead of carrying out the guaranteed replacement themself?

For sure, it is Denon’s task to solve this kind of inline with the respective retailer, instead of shifting this back to the customer for the sake of simplicity!!!

In regard to the SC5000m players, the error list was emailed as a file attachment and was also attached to the devices as a printout. Denon’s behavior indicates that no complete check has obviously taken place, because some of the errors are clearly hardware-based and require manual checking. Were individual components of the players replaced in this context? These errors include the following:

see above list

A test program can only provide an indication of error diagnosis, but no definitive evidence. Have the devices been subjected to a stress test lasting several hours under load? in this respect, I ask for the detailed test protocols and log files to be sent.

As professionals, we can´t appear with any faulty units.

If Denon continues to insist that the manufacturer does not feel responsible, please inform the retailer of this, and that they are responsible to fulfill the customer rights. Clarify this and send the players to them for immediate exchange. I still demand my customer rights.

In terms of the SC5000m some errors also occur when the players are directly connected to each other or even in standalone operation without an Ethernet cable connected, it is technically impossible that these errors are caused exclusively by the X1800 mixer. I guess a hardware error in the players, possibly hairline cracks in circuit boards, or even defective soldering points. These nonsensical discussions are completely idiotic because due to the product liability the retailer has an obligation in any case and I will claim my rights. Thereafter, the retailer will assert his rights against Denon once again. So why unnecessarily complicating it?

As mentioned before, these units will be used by professional Artists in public. So far we have not published any negative posts/comments or videos about any errors. We hold up the Denon DJ flag in public and especially under the Artists. It´s not easy to get artists to switch from Pioneer to Denon or even play on Denon DJ Gear for one night/gig. Most insist on their technical rider, calling for Pioneer setups only. To support us event organizers, Denon has to ensure that all the devices do not cause any show stoppers in public traffic, otherwise, it is impossible to go with Denon devices in such pro environments. As these showstoppers occur during performances, they are extremely uncomfortable for everyone involved, especially for the performing artists. Hangin´ or resetting units are a nightmare for any of us, needless to mention the frustration.

and received this answers:

Your case has already been escalated to the highest point of inMusic Europe; and I am the most senior member of staff for service related cases. I am very sorry for the issues and frustrations you have experienced to date.

As I’ve previously advised, warranty action can only be taken against the original goods purchased – and this is what has happened. I also advised that based on the fault descriptions provided, it would be unlikely that we would find an issue on all 3 units. I also confirmed that replacement units would only be provided on goods that were found to be faulty.

A fault was found on your mixer; this has been replaced. No fault was found on your players; these have been returned accordingly.

If you have any further grievances or wish to pursue any further action in accordance to your consumer rights, then I must kindly refer you to your place of purchase; though I’m unsure as to what further action they would be able to take, as your consumer rights would only be valid against goods which are faulty – and we’ve already replaced your mixer.

Answers are from February 2021. Units are still not back from Service. I spend a lot of money for useless, faulty equipment. Everyone thinks for themselves and how such errors can be caused by a mixer if the lan cable is not connected to this unit or another mixer like DJM900 was used. For me it sounds a bit like: we exchange the crappy mixer and we will see whether the customer keeps his mouth shut. Needless to mention that these units were bought in November 2020 and the case is open since December 2020.

This is the only issue I ran into so far. I was practicing for my next livestream when it happened. Good thing I wasn’t on air.

This does not sound right… I work for a company that produces stage light equipment as QC/QA tech, this would not pass my service in that way… We check all stuff, including all connections inside the devices, all mechanical, electronic and software aspects of every single one of the devices. This would be completely unacceptable on my department.

What about software. If the tech can’t find anything physically wrong what can the tech do?

Other than the screen issues the op described software issues. And one is the property of the deck.

This is known it happens every time the power glitches even if you don’t notice the power glitch.

I can tell You, there are testing methods that can expose almost everything. Not sure how much they did test, but I hope there was enough done. Anyway, I said about testing more of new devices before sale. After servicing the devices should go over a rigorous QC test again anyway.

I am a Bachelor Professional of Technical Management (CCI) as well as a trained IT specialist and Apple Certified Mac Technician (ACMT). Among other things, I worked at Apple in the Customer Relations department as Lead Genius and later as Senior Technical Executive Manager / Senior Technical Support Engineer. So I know very well what I´m talking about.

All communication from Denon DJ is a huge disaster. This is shown by the sluggish associated email traffic. The customer and, above all, a customer-oriented solution do not seem to be in any focus. Much indicates that Denon is wriggling out of warranty obligations.

It doesn’t matter if these errors are hard or software related or both.

If there is only one single issue, the customer is already entitled to rectification. Given the large number of issues here, this is out of question. The retailer asked Denon DJ for an exchange with new goods, cause all issues came up in the first 30 days after purchase. Based on their conditions: “If the product is broken within 30 days, you are entitled to a new product.” Such an exchange should also take place without endless discussions with the customer.

As a technician i would suggest, that the SC5000m perhaps has built in bad, possibly wrongly dimensioned power supply.

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It’s was a feature designed for the original 5000 and works like it should for that model but the feature didn’t translate well for the m version.

IT credentials don’t mean anything here btw.

Hi @TheHrdRebel - Sorry to hear of the trouble with your SC5000M and your dissatisfaction with our service. I am happy to hear that they were able to assist you with your X1800 mixer.

As some of the SC5000M issues noted above happen randomly, it’s probable that they just didn’t show themselves in our test environment. It’s unfortunate, but does happen.

That said, I’d be happy to have our team take a second look at your case to investigate further. Please send me a DM with your contact info and I will have one of the service team managers reach out to see how we can resolve this for you.

We want you to enjoy using our products, so I hope you’ll give us another opportunity to make this right.

All the best,

Jason

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People will tell you “I don’t have these problems, so they don’t exist”. But let me tell you… I encounter a lot of your problems consistently and I knew it was only a matter of time before more people encountered them as well. The more people find out about these products, the more these issues will raise concern.

I consistently encounter these same problems you have described: needing to restart the players due to glitching, the (!) quality stream mismatch, LAN issues (this happens frequently), touch screen lag, and instant doubles issue (this happens A LOT).

Here is a link to a lot of my main issues, however, every issue I’ve encountered is not listed here - Massive List of SC5000 Issues (all with video evidence)

EDIT: To me, these issues aren’t common with most people because they don’t use their units for 8+ hours at a time. When I DJ’d a recent wedding, the units were on for 10 hours and I could list a handful of issues I encountered by the end of the night. Additionally, I’m convinced most people aren’t sporadically mixing with all 4 decks, for hours on end, super quick. I believe these factors contribute to a lot of these issues; the long term hardcore mixing on them is where these issues shine.

You’re probably right. I spend about 2hrs at a time once a week. This is because I spin and practice on a different platform. I don’t take the Denon’s out.

I did give your thread a like awhile ago cause I experienced a couple of your issues.

just tell me more about it pls

IT credentials paired with technical understanding is very helpful. To make it clear: I’m in the Entertainment / Event Industry over 30 years. I started deejaying with 13 and my first pro CD-Player was a Denon DN-2700F. Most people didn’t know that Denon was the club standard everywhere before the other japanese company joined the competition. The very first Plasmascreens and CDJs 2gether with DJM in Europe were introduced on my loveparade truck with them as main sponsor in the nineties. yes we’ve gone a very long way. We also did one of the bigger events around the loveparade with more than 18k visitors and over 150 Artists. That time Denon came up with a vinyl turntable. We wanted to run these units at the mainstage. During soundcheck we encountered so many problems that the only solution was to buy another set of Technics. Due to this experience Denon redesigned the platter. First workaround from Denon was a kind of Anti-vibration film as isolation that was glued under the rotating platter, but that didn’t solved it. Apart from these problems and a misaligned laser in the DN-2700F, up to date we have not had such negative experiences as with the last Prime Setup I ordered (and we had a lot stuff from all well-known manufacturers with us).

Don’t guess me wrong, as I bought my first prime setup during the Player & Mixer promotion, I ordered it to just give it a try, but really not expecting much. What happened in the first few hours, I instantly felt in LOVE with these units especially the M’s in particular, felt like they came from another galaxy simple out of another world with it’s rugged solid haptics. Woow, compared to the plastic crap on competitor units, absolutely nothing beats this solid steel / metal finish. Even the defect mixer without a functioning oled display and bad sound couldn’t deceive that. I was so lovedrunken that I immediately ordered a second setup (yes true, I had the pink glases on). The DoA mixer was later exchanged by Denon with a new unit. Took very long but I thought it was a coevid thing. Since I felt in Love, I have always tried hard to convince everyone of these cool devices and tried to reach out everything possible with these units.

All or nothing, it was time to face the facts: I decided to stick with my new love and I changed my rider. Afterwards I sold all the other stupid stuff from the competitors that feels so outdated. I swore myself to never go back and use it again.

Some friends and several of our Artists jumped up with me on the prime train (perhaps they had no choice, cause i was talkin’ anytime so much about my love). Sorry for that guys :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: At our events I forced them to play with it. Voluntarily or reluctantly everyone had to deal with it because I only set up denon devices in the dj booth. @NoiseRiser Can you remember the discussons we had with several Artists? :blush:

Than in November 2020 I ordered my third prime setup and the total odyssee as already described in this post, begun.

I am convinced that both players have hardware-based errors. Of course, it is conceivable that certain errors are software-based, but why don’t they appear in the same way on all other devices in my Circle of Friends?

Don’t look to much - Fix it. DM is incomin’ later.

very easy: exchange both crappy units with new ones

We want nothing more as enjoy fully working units to it’s best. We’ll be very proud to show these in public on main stages and what creativity it can unleash.

@JWiLL I am extremely confident that we can find a good solution together.

Jason fully parole granted. We assure, nobody will blame if accidentally a bigger 6 is emblazoned on the units instead of the smaller 5 :innocent:

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Yes, I do, and I did many dj routines to show the potential of the equipment to the guys. Show the differences and how much fun it is to play. Every my set was precisely planned at least week before the show. I also loaded my own money in 4 deck setup for that purpose and showed Denon dj on every gig - it is in my rider. Also I got invited with my booking manager to Denon dj Berlin office, to make a lifestream (not happened due to covid - maybe next time). In November 2020 there was something wrong with the decks, but I thought, that was the stress only due to the covid issues and Police visiting the party to check if we follow the safety rules (no one got a problem so we carried on).

@JWiLL if possible, I would also want to talk about some issues that came out (not technical - just business-wise - since Frank left I got left with no contact, no response to my emails) if You got a moment for me, please…

It’s original intent was to protect from accidentally pulling out the power cord.

Everybody here are engineers, technicians, and an It experts. Just so you know.

@djbertie did a good job logging his issues in.

Hi, I was hoping to see if either you could please help me with a couple questions, or if you can point me to an actual Denon DJ technician please? Im trying to figure out how to update the firmware to the newest firmware, & also, was trying to see if anyone knows how to set the Denon SC-5000M for skratching please. Like, I know how to get around the instrument okay now, or I’m gettn there, at least…lol… But, im very new with this instrument, & could really use a quick one on one with someone who really knows there ■■■■, thanx mate,your the best, & your appreciated…:+1::pray::notes::earth_americas:

I would read that Statement as great news really. Your decks are not just connected to your mixer by audio cables, but by network cables too. More than audio is being shared live between the three pieces of hardware, data is being shared too.

All that data passes back and forth through the mixer and they found a fault with the mixer and they didn’t just repair it, they swapped it out for a whole replacement mixer.

Did you read this part of the original post?

In terms of the SC5000m some errors also occur when the players are directly connected to each other or even in standalone operation without an Ethernet cable connected, it is technically impossible that these errors are caused exclusively by the X1800 mixer.

With all the issues mentioned above, it really looks like a hardware issue indeed (CPU problem or whatever). Although it is hard to believe that the same kind of issue is present on both units then. However, it is not impossible. Imagine both units were manufactured in same batch, with same parts batch used from supplier which may have the same kind of issue then. Could be a single part, e.g. a capacitor which either wrong type used during production or which does not meet the specs, causing supply voltage instability (just an example, there are thousands of other possibilities) which may also be related to temperature so it may not be easy to diagnose on the test bench.

TL;DR: Although unlikely, it is not impossible that both units have same kind of hardware issue.