Sc5000/1800x problems (bpm issues/grid issues/analysis)

I respect everyone’s opinions as we all have our own style and workflows and prefrences but I can’t see this come out in my personal opinion. Ultimately, the request is to dumb down the unit’s capability to what a turn table offers and Denon sells that product too.

I see on Instagram so many folks that don’t know things about the players that seem basic to me so to have representation of a powerful player out there looking like it can’t show waveforms for example, would only do harm to the product image rather than pictures of it showing everything it can show.

If you asked 100 guys here if they would hide that data, I would be surprised if you got more than 1% saying yes. I am basing that on how many people actually want it when they use Serato and Traktor and weren’t seeing the waveforms on the CDJs (and they had it on the laptop but still wanted it on the players as well).

Again, all my personal opinion on how I see this.

Cheers

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It doesn’t matter if a piece of equipment costs 500 or 3600 euros, because if the manufacturer decides to put it on the market then the gear must deliver what is supposed to deliver according to the manufacturer’s claim and advertising. If not, then every customer is taken for a fool and one can take on consideration even legal actions against the manufacturer. As long as someone charge money for a service then that service must be as advertised.

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I don’t like the Pioneer jog bend deadzone and the combination of a lack of pitch ranges between 16% & 100% and only 0.5% increments on 100%. I own 4 CDJ-900s and they have difficulty seeing the music inside some folders, too.

I also own 12 Hanpins (all ADJ now, though I used to have Stanton and DJ Tech, too), but their DSP sound quality is inferior to the Pioneers as well as the browsing being difficult to find your music on them with only the lowest folders with music showing. Fast loading and no control latency, but hard to navigate. I still use them a lot, but it’s a pain finding the tracks I want and other people basically refuse to use them for that reason. The latest Hanpin (Reloop RMP-4) actually improved the sound quality of the processing and fixed the jog as I instructed them, but stupidly got rid of the SPDIF output to make room for frigg’n sync (!!!) and didn’t go to a larger screen. That was discontinued after about a year of being on the market. So the only game in town to get a standalone unit with good browsing, link, lots of pitch ranges, good pitch increments, and no jog bend deadzone was literally Denon Prime.

As for sticking to vinyl, I have 8 super OEM TTs and maybe only a thousand records. I keep some of them where I play. I love vinyl. Tracks tend to be mastered more dynamically. I’m an expert at setting TTs up after all these years. 12" is fun to work with. It’s how I started. But records are expensive now like never before, wear out, heavy, and I have like nearly 100,000 digital audio tracks. Need digital playback.

Oh, I own the Denon 5500s, too, but with the motor off it has a jog bend deadzone and with motor on it has issues registering platter drags. TT Tricks setting On they completely ignore the platter, and Off only occasionally/briefly sees manipulation of the platter. So goofy platter bend registering with motor on. Bending on the 5500 7" record or disc itself is fun and useful to practice on, especially since Super OEM TTs are so high torque you really have to nudge and friction the record directly on those, anyway, but the 5500 is nightmare to actually play on live in a venue… partly because of the touchy 7" and inconsistent platter registering, but also because of strange stuff like you can’t set the hot starts with your hand holding the record/disk. Truly bizarre. The sound on the 5500 is comparable to the CDJ-900, though.

I have Deckadance 1&2, Torq 2.0. Traktor, Virtual DJ, and Mixxx. Of all of them, I mostly only use VDJ now when I have a computer and mostly just when I’m too tired to stand or am sick or something or need to build some special set for an event in another town. Occasionally if I need to do an event with requests or music I don’t know at all, I will do a controller setup, either with the Pioneers or Hanpins.

As for my weird needs to hide on screen stuff I don’t want, I can do that with Traktor and VDJ easily. I also tutor and mentor DJs, though, and it would be extremely useful to have decks other people can immediately jump on and use, browse naturally to find their tracks, have good analog-like interface (not possible on Pioneer currently with them ignoring both slow jog bends and small pitch fader movements), and force them to use their ears. I would probably also lock that garbage out with visiting DJs or open deck nights, because, frankly, I find watching people DJ with their eyes to be BORING and I don’t get paid enough to be bored while watching other people DJ at events I run.

LOL I remember this thread in the Pio forums back in the day. I don’t recall your screen name though. Was it different there? I am surprised I remember this lol

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I use the same handle on both forums. I’m not the first person to bring that up on that forum. Their idiotic excuse was that it prevents the jog from registering a small rotation from the bass bins or from accidental hand movements. If you accidentally move it, you can intentionally move it back. I also own a pair of Danley Labhorns I regularly stick CDJs on top of when practicing or testing. That pic of 5 SC Primes and the MP2015 in the other thread is on top of those subs. Their CDJs do no rotate on their own from bass, and I have the 900s’ jog tension tuned way down below stock by changing the internal gear cogs. The 2000s actually have a tension knob on the top, so it’s all just dumb after-the-fact justifications for a bad not-analog-like control interface design. They don’t even try very hard to explain why they went from 0.1 increments on the CDJ-1000mk3 to 0.5 increments on the later CDJs. They initially said it was the limits of the fader, but that is provably false if you do the math. And besides, a 32% pitch range with 0.1 increments would easily resolve that, and you just light up 6, 10, and 16% at the same time. Viola. Not sure if a software fix can resolve the jog bend deadzone or the empty folders, though.

Prime 5000 already does. Some people want those existing features to work, in their view, better, which denon have said they’re working on

I just diagnosed you sir with #gas

Gear Acquisition Syndrome

Fixed for you @Reticuli

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/7-stages-of-gear-acquisition-syndrome-585947

On the left deck sync is not in-sync. There should be a vertical line in the circle. However, the left sync should also be flashing if it is out of sync which it does not.

I cannot see if a fader of another layer is more up than the 2 layers you’re playing. That one could as well be the 125.5 layer+fader

Hah hah. RANDOM??? Are you functionally literate or not? There’s an entire practically biographical narrative explaining the complete lack of randomness in those purchases. I take umbrage with that characterization, sir! (leather glove pulled off and smacked across someone’s face)

Wow. This thread got deep. like 20,0000 leagues deep.

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Random. Random?! The giant squid is going to attack and I’ll finally have a chance to show what this technology can do in my quest for world domination.

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Reason i bought denon is:

  • sound quality is better as pioneer
  • units are 2 grant cheaper then pioneer
  • loop buttons below jog dial (have them also on the RX) are great
  • 4 players with 2 decks (you don t have this on pioneer)
  • filter options (i only use echo and flanger most of the time) with touch pad is better then pioneer
  • effect buttons (like noise with own button)

i mainly play house, 90s, 00s on gigs, used the RX for two years (with my own high end EV ETX 15 inch tops and 18 inch sub).

I think denon has a great advantage hardware wise over the pioneer,…

But they made one big mistake, they bring software that is not good. it s buggy, not tested properly and the customers are the testers. It s like a car, you need to rely on your equipment, and in 2 days i have the set and there is a lot of unfinished business over the back of the end customer.

And when you ask something (i noticed) you get answers, oh we never seen this, strange we dont know this. Tip for Denon, bring stable software, invest in your development team, make a more better integration with rekord box, make stuff easier on the controller (2 days and i can give you a list allready) when you play on the deck that is live (enable master button automaticly) so if you use sync on slave deck for 2 seconds it works immediatly and so on…

the x1800 also not bug free, what i said about the beat detection is faulty, (maybe hard to say) but as a dj i dont care why it is not working i pay money to use something that is so simple…thats why i bought it.

If a dj playes crap tracks and the crowd is not happy they dont book you again,…also simple…somebody pays money to get a service, deliver the service, and make your customer happy.

now i m opening 1200 tracks by hand to check and fix al the grids… :rage:

@Canaris exactly!!! 10 points for you! :slight_smile:
Reese both channels are open (to the max), 1 and 4, both are on 125bpm, so the 1800x is making something up.

The sound quality on the SC Primes is only superior to the Pioneers right now when key lock is on and you are substantially in negative pitch. I’m not trying to make you feel bad, but I can empirically show you this in measurements. SC Primes also have 100X the intermodulation distortion of the Pioneers when you compare at zero pitch. I presume this is digital signals processing related and not the clocks. This isn’t even getting into the high frequency roll off issue. I am hopeful all this will gradually improve for the Denons, especially with them adding coding staff and opening up a facility in NZ recently.

I agree the pads and loops at the bottom are awesome.

I could care less about beat detection, so you’re not going to get any sympathy from me on that issue because it’s not perfect. I recommend using your ears and actually do some real work when you’re DJing. It will serve you better in the long run. Nonetheless, I trust beat detection will improve for effects and auto loops, rolls, etc, in the future, and that will help those souls reliant on grids, bpm counters, and sync. It seems to work well enough for that purpose for me right now for just effects and rolls to sound o.k., but I’m not against it being improved.

I think having to click Yes to load user preferences is really a minor thing.

Since you’re one of those that apparently doesn’t have hardware defects you’re dealing with, the “try just using your ears” adage actually could be fun for you and you don’t have to worry about even that not being enough, right?

Yes that’s the right thing.

Preparing tracks, learning the craft, reading the manual … becoming a DJ.

Those who can only do what they do with music if it’s perfectly bpm and beatgridded tracks should then drop the term DJing and come up with a different name for what they’re doing with the music. They are Lego brick assemblers in a world of wood carvers

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Personally I think those folks should stick to production and actually live produce and not even call it DJing, but YMMV.

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Thnx, but i can mix 100% on my ears, don t need a display, but to start a track it s easy that the display says 125 bpm. (and the grid need to be 125 bpm also for your loops and so on.)

Lets wait what denon has to say about it,…and when the bring a new software release.

@denon what email adress can i use to send some (mp3) tracks that are faulty indexed by you guys? (rekordbox index them good on analysis) so i can help to improve…

We do this at Scott’s every second Monday. Now that its getting warmer, we even do it outside.

@DJLee thank you for your comments.

In regards to your question about software investment, I’m pleased to let you know our CEO has recently invested $10 million in a 22 strong software development team in New Zealand, solely dedicated to all products DJ related. We’re extremely excited about this and what the future will bring to all our software and firmware updates.

On your second point regarding MP3, the best way to track this is to log this with our customer support team which you can contact via: https://www.denondj.com/support

I hope this helps,

Regards

Jay

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thnx Jay, the sooner the better, engine prime is most important to work relaible. i will open a ticket and after communicating i we give you guys a copy of my usb stick, and they can work with it. especially older songs and special manually crafted remixes can improve big time. (like old disco tracks recreated with house beats underneath it. )

With regards to this 22 strong team whom are burning through the $10million pot…hope they are developers with vast experience in the DJ software field.

Poach from Serato, Rekordbox, Atomix even Mixvibes.

Nick from Inklen is one very sound developer. His Mixemergency program is perhaps one of the most efficient DJ application I’ve ever come across. Its light, powerful and just a joy to use. And i think he is based in that side of the globe as well. :wink:

Often times the main gripe is the disconnect between what developers want and what djs need. It’s quite a common theme in most forums…

DJs: We want feature A

Developer: Here is a new feature W

DJs: No one requested for W

Developer: Yes we know, but we will like you to have W

DJs: :face_with_raised_eyebrow: What about A

Developer: A? Introducing feature K

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