SC5000 High End Roll-off


#65

Yep, like I stated 4 months ago, I hope it’s firmware repairable and not hardware related.


#66

Since it occurs both on the analog and digital outs, I would suspect it is something in the signal processing algorithms and not the hardware.


#67

Yeah but if it’s related to a processing chip and one that’s not programmable… I hope it’s an algorithm too.


#68

I’m pretty sure that @Gee_DenonDJ will say that it’s not possible to fix that, only in terms of hardware issue, it makes me sad that the sound is not as perfect as CDJ 2000 nexus 2 :frowning:


#69

The SC5000 is a computer with a CPU, memory, buses, ports, interface, display, sound card outputs, and the software OS. All these anomalies and quirks with the digital to digital sound are entirely digital signal processing code.


#70

I guess it all depends on the reasons why the filter was put in the signal chain in the first place. Only Denon can tell us about that.

The technical specification of the SC5000 gives us a frequency range of 22Hz to 22kHz, although the DAs could play up to 48kHz. I could live with that, if the frequency range was flat - which unfortunately it isn’t. The SC5000 doesn’t manage the 22kHz by any standard (-3dB, -6dB, -10dB).


#71

Agree don’t understand the point to make this, it’s strange because i already saw this (loss of frequency range) with Traktor unfortunately the picture are not available ! https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/traktor-2-11-output-problem-vs-ableton-itunes-winamp-more.313933/


#72

I suspect Elastique v3 is actually within the code stream at all times, and if so it’s neither neutral tonally nor full bandwidth. The easiest short-term solution, assuming this is actually the reason, is when keylock is Off completely cutting Elastique out of the code stream pathway in the OS. With keylock Off, you’d just use simple sample rate conversion and a very gentle high-pass filter with negative pitch and a very gentle low-pass filter with positive pitch. At zero pitch with keylock Off, you’d have no sample rate conversion and no filtering, resulting in bit perfect digital out which can be easily validated.

Later on I’d recommend, assuming my original supposition is correct, them working with zplane to improve the Elastique tonality and bandwidth first, and then down the line perhaps resolving some of its other anomalies like going completely haywire.

It’s certainly true that its keylock is extremely good compared to other players when you are lower than -6% pitch. In the positive pitch this difference is less noticeable like zooming out on a very large digital image. Near or at zero, the competition is way ahead of the SC5000 currently.


#73

Actually there is even one more thing to all of that. The filter is most certainly not phase compensated. So the phases of the high frequencies will be shifted and further affect the sound of the players.


#74

The filtering is very aggressive, so it’s probably like an 8th-order filter or multiple lower-order filters, and yes, they’d have a ton of group delay issues. The only time you can get away with that extreme a filter without the phasing getting wonky is for infrasonic types to protect subs.

However, we’re talking about probably some amazing harmonics synthesis stuff going on with interpolation upward in frequency and probably content harmonics shifted downward in frequency. So some of what Elastique is doing is probably a much more aggressive version of sub-bass synthesis, tube-like harmonic generation, and interpolative upsampling… among other things. i understand that any of these, let alone all of these, are going to produce aliasing, noise, and other grunge and they’ll have to find a way to probably noise shape to move it to a less audible band and then roll it off with filtering. So I don’t want to imply I know how to do extreme negative key correction without any of this or better than them, but when keylock is off at least, the processing should be minimal, at least as a first step to improving this situation.


#75

UP guys agree with Reticuli , it must be corrected in a future firmware please @paul_denondj could we have information if it’s possible or not ?