SC5000 High End Roll-off


#1

Played out in a club setting with the SC5000 recently a few times and couldn’t help but notice a tad bit compressed/muddy sound. This was tested with Digital & Analog inputs. Analog actually sounded a tad bit clearer (crisper highs). I did have another player connected with the same song loaded (NXS2) and it sounded noticeably better. I’ve never really had to EQ any items past flat on any DJ hardware before unless I just was having a fuss about a particular badly mastered song. I only own 1 SC5000 at home & it’s connected to a controller that does not contain digital out. So I can’t do proper testing/comparison at this very moment. Possibly could try heading to guitar center to test. Is there anything I should look for within settings etc?


#2

Unless you also tried switching the SC5000 to different input channels on the mixer I’m not sure how much validity is to this. Could be anything wrong with the mixer, cables (you did use a proper cable for digital outputs, not the supplied analog RCA?)


#3

I tested the Prime Setup with different PA-Systems and in a direct Compare with the NXS, In my opinion the SC5000 sounds on all Systems much clearer and much more powerful than the NXS Player.


#4

Yeah unfortunately for me I wanted to make sure I did the exact same thing that I would always do in terms of what was provided from the nightclub. I’ve never seen not one official digital cable in over a decade. So my comparison was solely based on what was standard procedure. I used the provided RCA cables from the venue. I wanted to use mine but on the contrary I did not want to spend time doing wire surgery at prime hours - I wanted to be able to just pull my SC5000 and walk away peacefully. There is a chance the RCAs could be bad. There’s a chance the inputs of the mixer could be bad but I had SC5000 connected on both layers on digital AND analog and ultimately didn’t sound too great. Will have to test further and setup some proper variables. I just didn’t have much time unless I came super early. I have another venue I’m playing on Thursday which I can come earlier to test. Or possibly tomorrow. As far as switching to different inputs I can say that this was performed - 1 night I came in on 2 & 3 and the next night I came in on channels 1 & 4


#5

one consideration on this is that some clubs have compressor limiters which, when presented with a hotter, or louder sound can invoke the limiters and dull the sound. Usually, such devices are hidden away from the booth and the DJs hands, so it’s not often possible to work out when they’ve been triggered. Sometimes lowering the input gain on the mixer channels can mean that the limiter doesn’t get triggered and the sound stays pure.

In contrast to the above, I can recall being present at the set-up and sound test for an Oliver Heldens appearance at an event, where the full OH Prime setup was on the left of the booth, the usual “standard” setup was on the right, and the venues sound engineer started swapping out cables on the “standard” setup as he felt that something must have been wrong with the other cables as the Primes output sounded so much clearer than the standard.

Obviously, checking for any filters/sweeps being left on is a quick check to make also, but I’m sure that would have already been done in this case (although it happens to the best of us :wink: )


#6

Just purchased some digital cables from amazon just to compare & contrast and just keep sake for the future anyway. Again being that I’ve never really had anyway hardware invoke any sort of limiter/compressed sound typically. It’s bugging me because this particular venue is 1 of my main residencies & this SC5000 has me spoiled thus far in my entire testing phase. My excitement continues to grow. Thanks for the tips I’ll report back after some more testing in regards to this. This other venue should serve as a good second reference (& yes no filter sweeps haha)


#7

The supplied 1m long RCA cables are very good and will do the job perfectly for the digital hookup.

You will not hear any difference in digital sound when swapped out to a “special” 75 Ohm digital cable. 1’s and 0’s will not suddenly change during data transport with normal RCA cables. Only if you go further like 5 or 10 meters, it could matter.

But perhaps the fairy godmother will tell me otherwise… :wink:


#8

I know that, that’s the reason why no special RCA cables for digital connection are supplied with the unit. But, it’s best to cover all bases when issues are reported.

Dominic, one thing you didn’t mention is how the NXS players were connected, digital or analog? Difference between digital and analog playback from SC5000 could have been from better quality D/A converters in the Denon unit compared to the one in the mixer.

Also, you did mention that the same song was used? Make sure you use the same COPY of the song.

Other than that I can only repeat what Gee said about hotter output - you did make sure the input level on the channel did not go up with playback from SC5000, right? It’s sometimes hard to see the increase when the mixer’s input all crancked all the way to the last red LED on the VU meter. Digital inputs on NXS2 are not possible to clip but analog are.


#9

This is not accurate.

Analog RCA cables are completely different than a SPDIF cable: one sends an analog signal, the other sends digital. Furthermore, RCA is a connector type (the end point of the cable), so while the perceived “RCA” cable (consisting of two wires, white/red) and a SPDIF cable both use RCA connection types, that’s the only similarity they possess.

RCA cables consist of two unbalanced, mono connections (2-volt, analog). A SPDIF cable is a single, stereo cable sending a digital signal rather than analog via RCA. In other words, if you want best results when using the Digital Out of the SC5000 (i.e. no jitter, potential background noise/interference, grounding issues), use a proper dedicated SPDIF cable, not an analog RCA cable.

What is debatable amongst the masses is sound quality improvement. Some claim there’s a significant upgrade using an all digital chain since it bypasses any potential degradation from D/A (digital to analog) while others don’t hear a difference (or don’t care). It’s really picking nits.

Personally, I prefer to keep things in the digital realm as much as possible until the signal reaches its output source, so I use SPDIF out from the SC5000 to the SPDIF in of my X1800. However, I also keep the RCAs connected in case something were to happen with the digital signal–i.e. dropouts.Spoiler Alert: nothing bad has happened when using the digital in/out.


#10

Seriously?

The cable does not dictate what kind of signal goes through it or not. It can be a transport for a digital stream or an analog voltage.

Most cables made by factories are 75Ohm anyway, because then they don’t need to make different ones. They may make all sorts of packages; composite video, digital single link or analog left+right. Only a true believer will buy a “special for digital” cable. As for “the single stereo cable” remark. Huh? The RCA connector is in essence a “mono unbalanced” connection. Hot and ground, nothing more.

Cheap cables mostly are not 75Ohm, so officially not digital or composite suited. The analog RCA’s supplied by DenonDJ are very good. Perhaps not 75Ohm spec, but it’s only 1m long.

/sarcastic mode/ If you prefer a “for digital cable”, than by all means go ahead. Perhaps you also need to check the cable. The bits will only travel in one direction with the more expensive golden cables. So don’t connect it the other way around! Audio will flow back into the SC if you do that.

Info for nerds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector


#11

Guys, let’s not go there. Lostnthesound did state the official, tehnical info that is correct. Real world application is, as Reece stated, somewhat different. Both of you are correct in a way but this is not the topic so let’s drop it.


#12

Yes, let’s do that! :wink:

As for the topic: muddy sound comes from your source or your destination e.g. your files or the mixer.

When using digital hookup, you either hear sound or you don’t. Period. No cable will change or color your sound. When using analog hookup, well then anything is possible. AD/DA on SC, cable quality, RCA quality, AD/DA on the mixer etc.


#13

Agreed. @Reese, apologies if my post came of a bit snarky/smart ass-esque, I assure you that wasn’t my intent. After re-reading it, I completely see how it could come off that way and that was definitely not the tone I meant to convey. My bad. :beers:


#14

Understood, I have the same passion and writing style in that exact moment. :laughing:

We’re both trying to make this forum better and give complete and exact info to users with possibly wrong assumptions. :blush:


#15

Hello, you’ve solved the problem with the SC5000 sound? I have the same problem, on the analogue output of SC5000 all my music is heard very badly :frowning: on other equipment my mp3 files sound very well! I use an analog mixer from Formula sound FF6.2L and as an amplification system L’acousctics Arcs Wide with Sb18M and LA4.


#16

Have you tested the SC5000 on other mixers? Other cables? I don’t know what you expect, there isn’t some magic option under utility setting that will make it go away. Learn to troubleshout your issues, if nothing helps return the unit and test with another one. If the other shows the same, get your money back.


#17

Hi everyone, i started noticing the same problem. I have 2 SC5000 and the x1800 mixer. The mixer seems to sound very good. For some reason the sound of both my SC 5000 sound muddy with analog or with digital cable. There´s no difference. I´ve tried mp3´s 320kBit/s but also WAV´s both the same problem. It sounds like the highs and mids are cut of a bit. Then i connected my Mac to the x1800 via usb and played the same track thats played on on sc5000 and switched back and forth (flat eq and same gain). There was a huge difference. The track from the mac was clear with crisp highs an great mids an lows, but the same track from the sc5000 was muddy and a bit distorted. I also noticed, that the tempo of the track on the sc5000 was different from the track on the mac even though the pitchfader was centered.

An other question i have is about the x1800. When i want to boost the highs mids or lows, i cant hear any difference from the 12 to about the 2,5 o clock position. Is that normal? Because when i take some highs mids or lows out i can hear a difference immediately.


#18

Firmware version? Files analyzed before playback in Engine Prime?

Also some info:

…thus you need to remember to have keylock when you’re playing a varying BPM track that has been beatgridded, or it’ll sound weird as the key moves around due to the SC5000 keeping the tempo fixed


#19

Newest Firmware both Mixer and player . Tracks were analysed and Problem was there with keylock on and of. Also i did Not Change the Tempo. The Pitch was in the middle Position, so + - 0. I also tried different USB Slots and sticks. The strange Thing is , it seems to be a problem of the sc5000 even via Digital Cable. Other sources Sound great through the x1800


#20

I would personally try with a different mixer or connect my SC5000 directly with RCA to the powered speakers/amp to verify the problem is in the mixer and not the players/cables.

Also, when support asks you what is the firmware version on your gear - “newest” is not the answer. I am not support so I don’t really care.