SC5000 High End Roll-off


#210

The Engine Prime software uses the same sound process algorithms as the player. So when pitching or keylocking music, it uses some kind of processing software. Elastique is such a processing software that makes this possible without audible loss, however some of us reason that it is to aggressively set and therefor there is indeed audible loss.

No need to worry. Keep rocking the decks and in time we’ll see improvement.


#211

So you think this can be addressed in firmware update if some sort of clipping is happening to certain frequencies?


#212

Yes. See Reticuli’s posts in this topic for extra info on this.


#213

So far is lots of reasoned good guesses at what cause is of this percepted sound effect.

It has been now just under the 3 month since the paul of Denon DJ has said he will tell more to us when the technical team Have news. Is that Paul still at denon dj? Is there still a technical team at denon dj?

If yes *******where is that answer ? ******* ?

if yes ******* what day, date, month and year will the firmwares be release to give us of option of excellent key adjust at high pitches or extra top frequency ? *********

If yes ******** why is every alll request for feature change to firmwares just they lost and ignored ? *******

If yes ********* why are the firmwares update request suggestion topic at 500 entrly and no comment from denon dj about any of the request suggests? Even if many of the request where not of possible then least to us tell to us which request are not of possible so we can know which to forget or wait.

I would excel to know to wait for 4 or 5 exact features to end the firmwares update and know to also then forget the other hundred and hundred of requests to firmwares.


#214

I think Denon DJ don’t care about this… It’s sad but I’m sure they posted this message 3 months ago to drown the fish and avoid a polemic on social networks

It’s make me angry that we have no answers for firmware update, request or new thing…


#215

The one thing I can definitely say about the technical team and commend them on is that most things added via firmware updates are what is been requested. Unlike the good folks at Serato who seem to be running on different wavelength implementing features which are bewildering to say the least and charging for it.

Just curious, thoughts on firing an email to Elastique directly with the technical findings…or that’s not allowed.


#216

That would to be the same as to write to Apple about of Samsung. Elastique is only one subroutine of firmwares programme on a prime computer.


#217

:laughing:

Well then hope the good folks at Denon will come good with a solution as soon as they can.


#218

Hey guys btw if maybe the next generations of Pioneer nexus with Elastique V3 have the same problem ? i don’t find real mesurement for the Nexus 2 it would be interessant to compare with one SC5000 vs one Nexus 2 and white noise


#219

There’s already a link to tests on Pioneers vs other brands linked above by me.


#220

I don’t want relance the debate but I just saw that the denon team respond now all topics but we have ZERO answers from @AIRVince or Chloé since months … :roll_eyes:


#221

This is still a real topic and wonder as to Denon`s opinion is valid?


#222

Rest assured it’s on their radar, but what is there more to say from DenonDJ? Every week a “Yes, we’re looking into it.”?

A week later we will keep asking the same question as on all other requests. “Because it has already been a week…” And if it’s eventually fixed, there will most likely be a “But what about the other more pressing matters?” :wink:


#223

I very much doubt it will be fixed. At first there were only the SC5000 and Engine Prime working together. So it was easy to adapt Engine Prime to the sound of the hardware. Now the MCX8000 is in the play as well. Changing the sound signature of both devices simultaneously is a hell of an undertaking. It would be easy for the software. But in my view, Denon has committed themselves to how things are.


#224

The mcx8000 is yes a heavy weight of the Prime series to pull, though there as nothing to dictates that Engine Prime must have a same treble, midrange and bass level as the mcx8000 itself.

There is also nothing that to say the sound of Engine Prime play must sound same as sc5000 so I dont think any end of Prime


#225

What’s wrong with the MCX8000 sound?

I sure hope that’s not the case. The use of a sort of multipurpose computer and OS with integrated controller that the SC Primes have been described as should allow whatever they want within certain limitations, obviously. It’s not just a bunch of single-purpose hard-coded chips. The philosophy as it’s seemed to have been marketed is one of flexibility and future expansion. I have no reason to doubt that.


I think it’s very easy to overemphasize the roll-off as being the culprit to the signature you’re hearing on the SC Prime players because it was so easy to measure and guess what’s probably causing that particular aspect. However, I believe the processing you’re hearing is more aggressive and that’s just a small part of what’s contributing to the signature even if it nonetheless would be nice to resolve the roll-off, too. Taking the old Denon players and putting a low-pass filter after one does not produce the equivolent signature at zero pitch, for instance. Getting the FS setting changed if that’s the cause of the roll-off would be an improvement, but likely wouldn’t resolve much of the processing’s sonics all by itself.


#226

Lot of if, lot of more guess


#227

Denon have adapted Engine Prime to sound more like the 5000s. At 20kHz it’s down around 10dB. I’d drop dead if the primed MCX8000 has the flat frequency response in stand alone mode as advertised:


#228

Hah haha. I’m not going to hold you to it, bro. Well, it’s easy enough to test. Download RMAA and give it a whirl. It is called “Engine”, after all, so maybe it is the unified audio processing engine. I presume it’s just the analysis software, though, and that the similarity in the roll-off is just from both the analysis software and the SC Prime players having the same implimentation of Elastique inside. And as I said, if you apply a low-pass filter to other players, while you get the slight top-end viel, you don’t get the rest of the subtle lossy-like signature of the SC Primes. I think there’s a larger processing characteristic going on with the sound than just roll-off people are obsessing with. The roll-off and the rest of the processing signature together is not as objectionable as people who haven’t heard them might assume reading this thread, but it’s something I think could be improved on and is worth giving some attention. Again, though, you can’t just take some other player, apply a filter, and get the SC Prime’s sound signature. They still sound closer to like Torq 2.0 to my ears than they do to any other player with a filter applied.


#229

I wonder if this issue is only annoying with older folks like myself. Sound quality is a big deal for us. I have both the Denon Prime Series as well as the full NXS2 series. The Prime series doesn’t sound bad, but it sounds like someone is standing in front of the horn of my speakers. It makes me want to boost the treble which is something I do only on older or poor quality recordings. So many people like the messenger they choose to ignore the message.