SC5000 High End Roll-off


#190

Really !? People did measurements with Engine prime software ??


#191

While there may be some sort of roll off, I’d have considerable doubts that any pc-based “measurement” is likely to be correctly calibrated well enough, or professionally enough to provide any tangible, meaningful, or accurate results.

The denon guy has said above, that they’ve made the right team aware of the comments. If they can adjust it I’d hazard a guess that the next they’ll mention about it will be as a bullet point about “improved high end freq response” in some firmware release in 2019.

Some people are interested in this, some aren’t. Just like any other feature.

If changing this means a compromise to another feature then that might be ok. Depends what other feature is compromised… the dual layer? The rekordbox usb reading trick? Quantise? Creating waveform in-player? Sharing a single drive between players? The split waveform display?


#192

While there may be some sort of roll off, I’d have considerable doubts that any pc-based “measurement” is likely to be correctly calibrated well enough, or professionally enough to provide any tangible, meaningful, or accurate results.

It’s not really complicate mate to make good measure with any professionnal software like cubase or spectrum analyzer @Reese make some test, higher in this thread If the measure are wrong why denon do not provide real specs ?

Some people are interested in this, some aren’t. Just like any other feature.

So you say you are not really interested by this ? all people who bought SC5000 need to be interested by this even if you have cheap speaker, it’s a professional player


#193

This has nothing to do with “well calibrated” as tellor01 states. It’s even audible with a normal set of ears…

My RME plays out a whitenoise audio file via the X1800 and records the output. What goes in comes out. The analyzer shows no drop. No difference when played with SoundForge, Media player classic or Traktor. Analog or digital; same outcome.

The same whitenoise file played via the SC gives a drop and cross referenced with the RME you simply hear the difference. Analog or digital; same outcome.

So as a test, I played the same whitenoise file with Engine Prime through the RME audio interface and the X1800. Output has the same drop!

This is clearly a Prime algorithm problem and not hardware. Engine Prime and the SC firmware have many many relations to each other, so it is solvable! The Elastique ins and outs Reticuli has described tells the same or even give a solution.

@Stedwards, the only possible compromise I can come up with, will most likely be in the very high key/pitch sound at +/-30%. So not for any normal use of the SC.

I sincerely think DenonDJ can fix this “not so popular to the public” bug.


#194

Some party people would find white noise difficult to dance to.

It would matter what the Sc may or may not do to the extreme top end frequencies, if the audience noticed it or reacted to it.


#195

This and the lack of Traktor integration are the two things keeping me from buying this unit, even at the newly lowered price.


#196

Most deejays, like you, don’t care about their audience. Don’t care about how audio should sound. You are probably the kind of deejay that plays his YouTube and Soundcloud rips on an L’Acoustics, Void or Function One set, so you would not hear the lack of highs anyway.

That’s all fine. I left this industry a long time ago, so I really don’t care what you do to your audience.

Like I said many times earlier: I don’t care about any audience other then myself. Just like you. The same egotistical view, but with other expectations of what a device should do.

Don’t get me wrong, the Prime series, for me, are the best. I just like to see it to go to the next level and make it even better.

This topic or request has no priority in any way. There are more pressing things to be resolved.


#197

I was working on a big brand of power amps for 15 years and in our testing we still measure power at 20kHz at 5kW or so even if customers not going to use this power level at those frequencies. Today its industry standard to cover the 20Hz - 20kHz range, any roll off before those frequencies can be considered mid or low end products. Since the SC5k aims to be a top notch high end product I think its terrible that the situation is like this and the lack of Denon feedback is disasterous. They simply dont take this seriosly.


#198

@denon

Why no response for this thread?

think it should be cleared out before this thread are getting hotter than prince …


#199

Paul already stated it’s relayed to the dev-team. There isn’t much more to add to that, I think. We need to wait. Other improvements should go before this, however.


#200

Guys, lets keep the discussion on the technical topic. Reese and Reticuli are doing a wonderful job providing technical references for the Denon team. They also help us, the community, understand the issue and learn something about sound quality and technical stuff.

Treating people who take the time and effort to help understanding a technical issue with the “noone cares but you” rethoric is destructive. If you don’t care, that’s fine. Just move on. No need to hold back other people.

Lets keep this thread on topic.

Thanks.


#201

thanks for help on every way, everyone does a great job here, just no one will see that i think.

good things need some time :wink:

regards


#202

That big brand wasn’t Lab Gruppen by any chance? The Lab 4000 is my favorite and we still use it :smile:


#203

Oh yeah that is correct


#204

Hi everyone I have found this post one of the most interesting on the forum concerning the prime range. I have 2 sc3900 and x1600 plus now the prime 5000ms and x1800 at present, never owned pioneer as before I was technics and Vestax kit. I do have to say that although I am new to the primes, I have my fair share of tunes either MP3 flac or good old wav and I have to noticed that some tunes I had always thought of as quality do not sound as good as I thought they would on my new kit, I have tried the primes with my old mixer,my old sc3900 on the new prime x1800. I changed from analogue RCA to new digital RCA leads, cheap and expensive to compare. I have set up with different combination from spacing the equipment to running different power supply points, only having just the primes on no effects units or other kit. Everything I could think of to see if something was making certain MP3S Wavs play sounding less quality clear they I expected. Even recording them in audacity and re-tagging them. Now I am no audiophile with a super high end home stereo, my ears are 50 years old so I am sure there are things I dont hear like a teenager would, but I am convinced my 5000ms are fine with my x1600, and weirdly my sc3900 fine on the x1800, it is like my 5000ms don`t like playing certain tunes on the x1800?

Over all I am more then happy with the sound, the tunes that I have issue with should be fine and so my conculsion is its the mixer and how it processes certain frequencies but also to include the media, its original peak volume, production and perhaps even the quality of and length of cables, club speakers and club acoustics.

I do love the 5000m`s :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#205

Thanks for testing, but no, it’s the SC and the Prime software. There is nothing wrong with the mixer.


#206

Perhaps but a lot of differing opinions on this topic, At present I am happily mixing away with no issues on my x1600 with the 5000m`s


#207

That’s definitely true!! :wink: Measurements indicate it’s with the processing of sound on the device and with the software. There is also no difference between analog or digital out on the player.

Most tracks don’t go that high in the frequencies, so it’s still sounds good enough. It doesn’t stop me for one second and enjoy mixing with the Prime set.

The X1800 is as clean as my RME interface. It’s a very underestimated piece of gear.


#208

With out a doubt, a lot to do with personal preferences and an individuals ears. T


#209

OOPS pressed send before finishing, This weekend I am going to retry my x1800 again with the 5000ms and re-compare, the Digital cable inputs allow me to me connect more kit and I have a dub siren I can put some really put some frequencies through the mixer then. For the price the 5000ms seemed a better choice then pioneer and I can`t keep off them at the moment.

I don`t see how the engine software could effect sound quality when processing for beat grid/bpm and key?