Please put a recording level slider on all primes with a mixer section on them.
If (and it’s a huge stretch h of the imagination to think so) , if, people start recording too high, scrunch the higher amplitude peaks of their recordings by going into the red too much, so be it - let it be their mistake to learn by.
One (In particular) or two people are going to keep swearing ‘til they’re blue in the face, that black is white, right up to the point they get run over on the next pedestrian crossing they try to use.
Don’t waste any dev time on it though, until you’ve got the things that everyone’s been waiting almost 4 years for though, out to the public, first !
Denon DJ should definitely not put a ‘recording slider’ inside any of their units to foul up the internal digital gain structure. Why don’t you just run your trim-gains and meters higher if you want the recording level higher? Why have internal digital levels higher than being metered? That makes no sense.
Why Reti? The unit is meant replace laptops etc, and last I checked Rekordbox, Serato, Virtual DJ, Traktor all have record levels.
A user can leave it at default or adjust accordingly.
I have learnt a great deal from your explanations about why there is nothing wrong digitally with current levels but adding this feature does not remove anything or add anything to the devices you own.
I tried recording some vinyl through the prime, set the volume trim levels all even to my set around 0db to just hitting +6. Then took that recorded track right off the memory stick, and went to play it back through the prime, and had to crank the volume trim up another 25-30% to match the original volume of the track.
That doesn’t seem right to me.
I then cranked up the trim on a vinyl track to +10, recorded it, and it still was about 25% lower than the volume I started with.
You guys have a lot of technical reasons about what is going on but all I know is that it would be nice if I could set the recording volume level higher, so I can convert my vinyl to digital right there on the device, and have it analyzed and be able to play it right back without having to crank the trim to 80%
Any thoughts?
One, because the masses have asked for exactly that.
Two, because it’ll be easy (everything is easy to add, ask anyone who has a request)
Three, because this is another one of those ideas where no one minds whether your charts, numbers, lines, curves and repetitive posting of “facts” is right or wrong. You request for “no change” is helplessly and catastrophically outnumbered by the shear number of requests for everyone in the world to adjust the recording level.
The unwashed masses don’t have the faintest clue about the basics of digital gain structure and recording. In the thread above they just got thousands of dollars worth of education on the topic. Most of them still are running their master knob and their meters irrationally and are like talking to a wall on the subject.
Hello all,
So regarding rec level I did a test this morning. I selected a song and I recorded it with all channel trims to flat and the channel volume in the middle between 0 and full. So after that I loaded the recorded song to deck 1 and the original one to the second deck in order to find the difference in volumes with both channels same settings. Guess what… The sound level was the same but there was a difference in audio quality between recorded song and original song. It was not listening so clear but rec levels were the same . That was my test.
I presume you mean you had the song you were recording peaking near the top meter LEDs when you say you had it between ‘0 and full.’ In that case and if the original song was mastered similarly-hot, your recording would indeed be close to the level of the original track when you load the original and the recording again later and set their trim-gain knobs the same. As for the difference in audio quality, that’s undoubtedly the result of the fact your recording ‘baked-in’, as it were, the sound quality degradation of current Prime playback. See the following feature request:
A compromise from Denon DJ would be to add a normalize feature that is applied to the recorded set, removing the need to run though secondary software.
If the recording was scanned and normalisation was applied after it was saved it would go a long way to solve the problems that people who want to just use the recording straight from the USB stick in the car or another device. I do this too. I record a set and take the USB stick directly into the car and crank the volume up. (Don’t ask how many times I’ve forgotten just how much I’d turned the volume up to compensate for it and forgotten to turn it down afterwards!).
A pop up that states “Apply normalisation to your recording? Yes/No” dialogue after a recording has finished would be great. I’m sure it’s in the feature request section already.
Perhaps there’s a difference between some of the units? Coz mine does not behave like that at all. If I compare the same song with a recording I did with levels set to where I normally play at, the recording is DRASTICALLY lower.
And yet I know more about how this stuff works than everyone combined posting in this thread. Show a little appreciation.
Eventually I’m probably going to buy an all-in-one unit of Prime when they put out one that is small enough and does the stuff I need.
I pulled the evidence out of people (like pulling teeth), explained why this record function is not broken, how to deal with your recordings in post, and what options InMusic could implement to let people not bother with post alterations of it and the side-effects of each option.
Then why are so many people complaining about it? I honestly feel like the level is too low. Expecting me to crack up my channels gains way above where I normally play at, is not an option. A simple rec level adjustment would be easy to implement, the guys that don’t care for it, don’t need to use it. Nothing lost but lots of happy customers gained! (except Reticuli - he won’t be happy of course, coz, well… he knows better & he says so! )
Then you either need an aggressive recorder compressor/limiter or accept clipping on the P4 recording, and either way you risk compression or clipping because now the master meter will not tell you the record level.
Too low compared to what? A commercial recording? If you want the recording louder without altering it in post later, run your trim-gains and meters higher. The master meter top LED is -1dB below clip on the recording when the master knob is at its zero marking. Boom. Done.
Hello Reticuli,
Actually when I recorded the song the gain was between 2 and 3 white leds on channel at that time. . Then I played the recorded song and the leds were the same between 2 and 3. Same the original song. So level was almost the same but the sound of original song was more crystal. I repeat, all trims of bass mid treble in flat mode. It was just a test, I will repeat it to be more specific about results.
Thank you.
Then the levels matching was basically just a coincidence: you just so happened to put the levels the same on the original track playing out on the P4 as the track originally was. This will vary from track to track. You got lucky in that case.
It sounds to me like you’re one of those people who might either think they’re only supposed to leave their trim-gains at 12 o’clock or you adjust every track peaking at the 0dBVU point on DJ mixers. The channel trim-gain knobs are meant to be adjusted. Don’t just stick them at 12 o’clock and leave them, and as I said many times, 0dBVU on the meters is really only meant for test tones, noise, and very very dense music productions. Anything with a lot of dynamics needs to go higher than the meter 0dBVU point, slightly or a lot depending on the track. And if you want a really hot recording, you need to go even higher… like just keeping it out of the top LEDs if you want it to be close to a commercial recording’s levels.
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