Thanks. Good to hear it’s useful for someone. Remember to use your ears. Bouncy meter only part of it. Average level and RMS isn’t taking into account frequency like LUFS does. So your ears always have a role to play even just setting the channel trims.
Sure, but I never said I was too lazy to turn it up, I just don’t want to have to crank the crap out of it to hear it nicely. I have a problem with the current recorded level. That’s my whole point here. I tested it & like the OP & others, wasn’t happy. I want a way to adjust the rec level for myself (others don’t have change it if they don’t want to), without cranking up my channel gains & turning down the master to compensate for that & changing the entire way I normally play. All that hassle for what, because someone feels I shouldn’t change the gain structure of my own recordings?
I understand what you saying and stand behind you on the issue. I feel the same as well hope they can address this issue in firmware
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And I called it once again, folks.
Crazycraig… may I call you crazy? You’re messing up your recording levels much worse than normal… even more than some of the other people who do want InMusic to add some function down the line on this topic.
I’m going to harp on this topic until kingdom come:
STICK YOUR MASTER VOLUME CONTROL AT UNITY.
I really didn’t want to argue anymore man, but please make up your mind. You say if we want a hotter recording to turn up the channel gains, then at the same time tell us not to adjust the master & keep it at unity. So what then happens to the overall volume at a gig?? It gets too loud! I said… I want a way to adjust the record level WITHOUT cranking up channel gains & WITHOUT turning down the master to compensate for that. This topic is driving me crazy. If the P4 record level is 100% spot on according to design standards etc… thats great, however I & many other would like to have a way to increase the level without it affecting the overall volume at our gigs.
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Tested with Prime2 here and previously with Prime4.
The challenge is to get the 0 on the mixer. The metering is quite small. There’s a reasonable level difference between a flashing and burning white led.
The test I did last night with a white noise and a sinus of 0dBFS at mixer 0dBu ended up -23dBFS in the recording. Still 5dB lower, so perhaps 0dBu is nearly the flashing of the second white led.
Ehm …
I tested what Reticuli said. And too my blowing mind, (damn … he is right…). We just readed our LED´s wrong. The channel LED´s have other readings, than the Master VU. The Master VU should be readed in last stage. At first (Crank) raise the Volume of your Channel that you just tip the blue LED. (That a minimum under 0dB - Thats what we all have readed wrong.) … Do it with all your Channel Level adjustments. After THAT … you set the Master LEVEL as much, untill you reach 0dB LED. … after that you can adjust your PA to the Volume you need. (No CLIP!)
Record now the Audio of your Channel with internal Recording …
After that, save the recording.
Use the Browsing Folder Icon. Go to sessions. Load your Record to Player 2
You can see, that the recorded material is as loud as the played song from channel.
Same readings in all LED´s.
So I must also say - Nothing wrong with the internal Recording.
The missleading comes from the LED´s and numbering of the MASTER VU. Because there is 0dB a white LED … and at the Channel LED´s, there is the last white LED 0dB reading.)
Master & Channel have different Scales.
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This is the part I’m not happy with.
This is the part Reticuli says we must not do. he states emphatically to “keep your master at unity” So unfortunately without cranking the channel gains up to a way higher level than you would normally play at, currently the recording will be about -18db lower than you expect.
The primes definately need a record level adjuster to satisfy the number of users who’ve mentioned the low recording level. They’re gonna feel ignored by denon if nothing is offered soon
Master level adjusting is only for our PA, and has nothing to do with our recording. (Reticuli said - you must not do, because it hasn´t anything to do witho our recording)
Try it. It is like he had said.
The Master is only for the PA.
And the Channel Blue LED is just a tip under 0dB (It is not over or above 0dB)
(Denon can also just match the LED Metering to Master Scale LED, than we would never reach any of the 4 LED´s from the channel.)
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Like I said, but nobody is reading me 
…
Prime2 channel meter on second white led, master at unity is 0 on the master meter.
The problem on Prime2, is that the master meter goes from -4 to 0 to +6. That’s a 10dB margin in recording also. Prime4 has similar metering, but could be different.
Look at my mixer/metering stages:
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I completely understand what you’re saying and I do agree that it is totally possible to get a hotter recorded level. What I’m trying to express though (and probably not doing a good job of it) is that, that is not my normal way of playing (having the channel gains so high). And when you’re doing a gig having the channel gains so high will force you to turn the master level down, which then affects the mic and opens up the possibility for channel distortion. A simple rec level adjustment will solve this. It can be a slider or fixed presets like +3db, +6db, +10db etc…
Please note, I’m not trying to argue. Just genuinely don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. What level is it recording at? -18db? If you record a track exactly like that, then load that recording onto another deck, set the channel gain exactly where the original was set, you will see a massive difference between the two (about 18db’s as you already explained). How does this help us? Thats what I don’t understand. How is any of this helping us get a higher recording - other than us cranking our channel gains up to 3/4 that is
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No. Thats not right … (Of course a bit …)
If you use that method (which - I must admid - is the right method) You have also to be sure you set the right level of your mic and pa as well.
Just remove the information in your mind that the BLUE LED in Channel Mode is BAD 
The BLUE LED is our friend in Channel mode. Only The Blue LED of the Master is a bad guy …
ehmm … what I would say:
You have to adjust the microphone voulume too, just like you edit the Channel Volume.
And if that all match … than the LEVEL on the Master will also match. You can see it in Reese´s Pictures. If all Levels are right setted, the external measuring will also show 0dB which is right, and exactly that what we want to have at our Party.
A real hot Signal without clipping.
We need to adjust our PA´s to that … not our DENON.
And yes. I thought all the time like you. (I think it comes from the old analog equipment I used, and there was the last LED the BAD guy ever!!!)
If you set the Channel Level to reach slighly the BLUE LED (Let it only flicker to the Beat) you have around -1dB.
Check it - You will see that it is the true … Record a mix with that setting. It will be right level.
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It’s always going to be a balancing act for different DJs. You can produce the same level of output from a sound system by putting the channel gain up high and the fader low, or the master output maxed out and the channel gain low etc ok the gain structure will be all over the place and clarity will be a cock-eyed crapola of poo.
But, different DJs will have their way of working, whether that’s right or wrong shouldn’t be and isn’t our concern.
So, recording level control is needed.
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Thats also true.
But if the other DJ´s also do the right gain staging, it would not be important to have a gain adjustment for recording.
It´s all about gain staging. (How it is done - it makes the different how it is recorded.)
Because the DENON is´nt affected by the MASTER Volume at recording, it is essential to set the right Volume at the Channel.
That´s the point. (Many DJ´s come from analog equipment, so they don´t like the last LED at the Channel)
But our DENON Systems are digital. So the Blue Channel LED is our friend. Let it just lightly blink, and you are allright.
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So we have a blue light at DENON 
So mastering post record as @Reticuli suggested is the right option.
The question now is should this be done on the primes or in a DAW 
Just to recap - sit pretty at 0 on the channel meter and the recording will be ok right?
And why is Denon not explaining this officially in a tutorial?
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Of course the recording level will be at -18dBFS. That’s the difference in type of metering. There isn’t a single mixer in the world that outputs 0dBFS when the meter on mixer shows 0. It’s the difference between the analogue and digital domain.
When you record to a computer using the record output of the mixer, it’s completely the same (-18dBFS). It has been since the dawn of mixers.
How does it help? It doesn’t, it’s just how the standardization of levels works.
So. If you play a track at 0dBu and want the recording at 0dBFS, you want to set the recording level at +18, right? (like you describe loading the recording to a deck and not adjust the gain). You’ll certainly cannot mix any track with the other as the mixed result will never pass digital 0dBFS without distortion.
An adjustable recording level is your solution to gain some level, but when mixing it can never be the assumed +18 without some form of active processing. You could simply try +10, that would create a recording of around -8dBFS.
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If the channel meters aren’t at the top LED, they’re not clipping. I’m not advocating going into the top LEDs on the channels or the master. The headphones are being fed from the channels, for one.
I have to take umbrage with that comment, though I’m not sure you intended to say something contrary to the following… Unless you’re using some old Bozak rotary mixer with an outboard rack VU meter right above it’s feeding, a sound system’s volume really should not be actively adjusted by the master volume on these DJ mixers. That’s one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas on sound systems. Possibly the worst idea on sound systems is having master meters not affected by master volume controls and having the master volume at less than max when a DJ jumps on. What could possibly go wrong with having the sound system volume control within reach of the DJ… hah hah hah.
This is a unity mark where (unless you change some utility setting) the output for that section (in this case the master section) will be the same as what went into that section (in this case the master section sourcing from the master effects that were sourced from the mix bus that were sourced from the channels, etc):
This is the ‘nominal’ or average peak level point on a VU meter that you want peaks for a track to at least go up to and some past:
The recording is pre-master just as any record out is and therefore the master is not affecting the record level directly, but the master volume knob itself influences the way you meter on the channels that feed the recording. If you crank your master volume control past its unity, then the master stage will boost over unity what the channels fed it and you will run your channels quieter to compensate, giving you an extremely quiet recording sourced from the pre-master bus… even more than normal for digital domain stuff.
I suspect many of those people who are messing around with their master volume knobs aren’t even getting a different volume from the master output than everyone else necessarily, rather their source for the headphone cueing, booth, zone, and record levels is just out of whack. They have a bit of a cheat, though, in that all of those have their own volume controls to suboptimally compensate for this weak source signal to some degree… all except the record and record out that is literally just this source.
And that’s just one factor at work here.
If you want to adjust your sound system level right now on-the-fly (you’re a wedding DJ and the only one on the P4), I suggest you adjust the sound system level at the amps, sound board, get an analog volume control or adjustable in-line pads for the XLRs, or use the booth or zone outs to this sound system you are strangely letting the DJ (hopefully just you or someone you trust) have total control over.
At this point, though, this subject is so ridiculous with the level of misunderstanding being displayed here and just confirms my theory that DJs are generally the most uninformed on sound tech stuff of any group that unfortunately gets access to large sound systems in front of people… and the demographic for something like the Prime 4 doing weddings or whatever with master volume knob tweaking all the time is probably just even more so. But facts are facts and I will admit some of you have a point that this user base with their poor habits might need the options to do certain crazy or lazy things. Let’s call it the crazy/lazy factor.
So I will concede to the insanity…
A record level adjustment thingy that defaults to its zero (no boost) but gives you the option to risk clip or limit of your recordings without knowing it is fine with me now.
Also, the ability to source the recording from either pre-master or post-master in settings would let you do whatever odd thing you want to your master volume knob.
A normalization or volume alteration thing in post on the P4 is probably asking too much of InMusic. People who just can’t be bothered to do post work to their recordings on their computer, touch car volume knobs, and who are convinced they shouldn’t put their master knob at unity or that they shouldn’t go past 0dBVU nominal points on the meters ever… they probably shouldn’t get any more effort made by InMusic to placate their poor habits than is necessary.
So you want a setting that allows you to go from 0dB up to like +18dB in increments of 1dB as the record boost option in the smart console settings. Recordings made would have their max level adjusted by that… whatever the consequences may be. Then you want a record source setting : pre-master and post-master as the choices.
That way you can do whatever you want with the channel trim-gains, the channel or master meters, the master volume knob, etc, etc.
The shockingly sad thing, though, is I suspect InMusic will sooner add this feature request to let crazy/lazy people have poor habits than they will add a -6dB processing pad on the players and get rid of all their degrading player sample rate conversion while also giving us the ability to change the input pads on the X1800. That currently is actually mal-designed and results in inescapably-degraded sound even with proper habits on Prime and needs fixing. In contrast, there’s technically nothing wrong with the Prime 4’s record levels. Oh well, no one ever said life is fair.
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