Is the block diagram of the X1850 available?

I’m interested in the X1850 but couldn’t find their block diagram :frowning:

Is it available for the public?

Thanks!

Example:

I’d be curious where the FX limiter is in the virtual signal path, how it works, and why it’s needed.

Edit: Just found this in the X1850 manual:

“FX Limiter: Turn this setting On to limit the volume of the FX output so it is equal to the input from the channel. Select Off to apply no limiter to the FX.”

Wondering if this is just the sweep effects or for each effect stage (filter, sweep effects, main effect unit). And it limits it to the peak of the original channel signal for whatever the trim gain knob is at? Hmm… seems like people should realize that effects or going to change the level when you use them. Anyway, interesting feature. At least we can turn it off. Would be nice to see the virtual signal flow, though.

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Whoa thanks for calling out the FX limiter, that’s exactly what I’ve been looking for. It’s definitely applied on the main effects unit. Without it you’ll get a big jump in the gain across the spectrum when using the FX, even if you use the frequency filter to remove part of the FX signal. I’ve found it maddening and this fixes it!

Also it’s brought to the 1800 as well, which is great.

I wrote it up here a while ago: FX juicing the main signal more than expected — bug?

Doesn’t seem to boost it any more than an analog mixer would with filter or on something like the DJM-800 or DB4 that predictably change levels when you use the effects. I turned it off and just try to stay out of the blue on the X1800. I am curious if it’s fixed-point and capable of clipping somewhere prior to an actual output stage, but I suspect even if it is the former it’s not gonna do the latter and they added this just to address the thing you’re talking about: people wanting the peak to not go up higher. Even with the FX limiter activated the RMS will definitely still increase with echos, flanger, bit crusher, etc, though, and with it actual perceived loudness.

Yeah for sure. I’m expecting some increase in loudness when I add in effects, but only in the frequencies I’m getting returned by the effect. The uneffected frequencies getting a boost was a surprise to me. It also doesn’t happen when I use an external effect, which suggests to me it’s some funkiness in the built-in FX gain.

How are you figuring out that, say, the low-end is being boosted by the master effect when you have the frequency knob to the right? I assume the frequency knob is (for example, to the right) only actually affecting the band it’s supposed to and acting as a high-pass to the wet portion of the signal. I suppose if the whole volume is increasing, they might have an issue with the dry-wet virtual crossfader curve with insufficient dip in the middle. You want the faded total signal when it’s not effected and is in-phase to have consistent, identical level as it fades, but of course as things get processed phase will change and you’ll get summation or cancelation effects, too.

Yeah something like this seems to be what’s happening. Or the wet signal has an extra boost — I can have the frequency knob all the way to the right, and the wet/dry knob fully wet, and when I toggle the FX on and off I get a volume boost in the full signal.

Does it sound louder, too?

And what meter is boosting? The channel or the master?

It’s possible the respective meter is picking up the faintly-processed highs increased level. I don’t think it goes all the way to 20hz in the left and 20khz on the right… pretty sure it’s a lot less than… that closer to the middle.

Also with more playing around the FX limiter does seem to help, but not as much as I expected. The example in my last post isn’t effected by it.

Yeah, that’s what I mean by volume boost. The whole signal gets louder! I see the boost in the channel and master meters, and hear it too.

That’s weird. Does the channel meter increase when you’re just using the main effects section on the master?

No in that case the master jumps but not the channel

And thank you for saying it’s weird! I’ve been feeling like I’m going crazy haha.

First time I’m hearing this.

Was this added in 1.3 for the X1800?

I simply upgraded and never checked what it added

:man_facepalming:

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Hi all!

I’m reading about the Digital Output but can’t completely understand. I know it is used to link two mixers, but is their signal is the same that the REC Output?

Can I use the Digital Out to record the Main/Master/PGM Bus?

Please Denon give us the Diagram Block!!

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That is confusing, especially when they mention “output level.” Do they mean the analog output level or the digital one? Certainly the Booth knob is not controlling the level of the SPDIF out ever. It also almost seems like you can never completely turn off the Digital Link signal unless it’s simply disconnected, you’re just changing whether it’s pre or post Master knob, which makes the Digital Link (off/on) setting weirdly named. Quite a few things have been weirdly named on Prime over these firmwares.