How could an improved VL12 successor looks like?

Noone wants another bad technics clone…

So what is needed to gain recognition and make it a piece anyone wants to own? A real gamechanger

What made the original Technics so famous? Rock solid with less feedback on the system and they implemented something groundbreaking: a pitch fader, there was no alternative to it as these decks came out. Most djs worked with tapes or analog bandmachines that time.

Nowadays, what could be such a Gamechanger? It must be something totally different, futuristic! A groundbreaking deck that picks up these oldschool vinyl stuff, shifting, transforming and integrating it to the digital habitat of the 21 century. Not another boring turntable, the challenge is to create something that doesn’t exist yet on the market. It should be a kind of remix deck with all the digital stuff under the hood: the engine prime ecosystem as the core heart of the deck fully communicating with all the other prime gear.

Let’s talk about the Future and collect wishes & ideas :cowboy_hat_face:

This sounds like SC6000M

Yes but where to insert the vinyl ? :joy:

There should be none buttons to press on vinyl record player. A fast stab of buttons may shake on the needle

Up in the place where the sun doesn’t shine… :wink:

Naa just kidding. A turntable hybrid was already done by numark and gemini and it had totally no fans (maybe max 2). It is proven already that this kind of cross products don’t sell too good.

This would to be a good conversation for idea collection 10 year ago or longer but it is too old now. DJ technical has moved passed vinyls

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DJ Koco says hello

Yyyy ok…? Like Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

A Minion somewhere is with no his clothes

I don’t think soo. Reloop is offering the RP-8000 MK2 and several of my friends already jumped on and bought 2 of them.

Yeah. Vinyl is cult, with its very devout worshippers… but way too niche, too minority now. It’s the sepia photo filter of DJing.

Don’t get me wrong. I started on vinyl with technics 1210s and kept buying vinyl well past the release of CDs and only changes when songs I needed to stay up to date just weren’t in stores on vinyl anymore, only CD. Vinyl is an important part of DJing history but it’s the cozy cave of real estate. The mountain cabin with no neighbors for miles, with a nice view as opposed to the millions of smart modern houses in streets with all the amenities to hand.

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RP8000 is not a media player, it’s a normal turntable with a small midi controller in one box.

Having push/bash buttons on the same thing that’s got a sharp needle finely balanced on a pivoting arm, with delicate counter-weights reading microscopic grooves from vinyl would be like walking on eggshells… bash bash bash jump jump jump skip skip skip , just when you don’t need it. Much better to have a dedicated turntable just doing what turntables are supposed to do, then a little sub controller isolated a few safe cms away

How about first dispensing with the “bad Technics clone” stuff? I hardly think the use of an upside-down pitch fader justifies that description. The only attempt by any DJ manufacturer to clone the 1200 was Gemini… and that was way back and hardly any were even produced. Hanpin Super OEMs are not 1200 clones. The VL12, for all its issues, is not a 1200 clone.

Here’s what I think InMusic should head in the direction of, while providing a service/returns remedy for VL12 owners who already own them and want certain things like the pitch fader deadzones and zero LED fixed. A lot of VL12 owners aren’t actually DJing with them, though. Yes, this is a very rough concept:

https://denondjforum.com/t/prime-hybrid-12-turntable-digital-media-player/

The Numark X2 and Gemini CDT-05 had a few fans, actually, but 1) Numark and Gemini CD mechanisms were too unreliable (ditto with all the bottom-of-the-barrel CD mechanisms Hanpin uses) and 2) USB drive playback was starting to catch on during the next few years that they lacked. If they’d used USB drive reading instead, obviously both of those issues would have vanished.

If Denon DJ had made the DN-HS5500 12" instead of 7" and with a tonearm, there’s a good chance the club standard decks in the booth would have gone from Technics 1200 & Pioneer CDJ-1000 to just a pair of Denon DJ USB drive-reading linkable/master-slave dual-layer hybrids even before the CDJ-2000 was released. Heck, by 2010, the original 1200 line was discontinued. I think the move to Denon as the standard install mixer would have followed, since their lines always sounded better than the somewhat-comparable Pioneer lines. BTW, the optional, removable CD mechanisms on the 5500 are rock solid.

I would assume with the 12" and tonearm, the 5500’s firmware would have continued to get developments instead of being scrapped for lack of sales during the Great Recession and them being unfortunately perpetually plagued by issues of pitch fader mis-calibration, poor nudge/drag detection of the platter with motor ON, the ridiculous jog-mode bend deadzone AND sensitivity asymmetry, and the idiotic inability to set a hot start/cue when your hand is stopping the record.

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Not that I’m promoting MIDI controls on turntables in general, but when you’re playing real vinyl audio records, there isn’t much reason for MIDI playback control on the turntable. MIDI in this context is usually reserved for DVS, and most people use relative mode that’s not even prone to skips, let alone the reality that DVS is immune to rumble and such.


Vinyl records were selling more recently than they had in decades… at least prior to COVID-19, though I assume that’s affected all sales of audio stuff.

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That peak has come and gone and even at the peak of around a year / 18month ago it was mainly the classic iconic vinyl albums that were being sold in supermarkets etc. not up to date 12” singles or dance tunes.

Interesting. Still, that doesn’t count the used after market or the people who have club vinyl from way back. I know people who regularly get their own new productions pressed. 7" is also a bit awkward to DJ on, 12" is pretty great to DJ on, a tonearm and phono connection is passive circuitry on something like this, and it doesn’t add a lot of additional cost to something already with a TT motor.

Yes a rough concept. Things can be improved, but I’m sure there will be a market for an outstandig hybrid, which transforms analog vinyl to the digital prime habitat and integrates it seemlessly.