Streaming agreements - anything we should be aware of?

Hi Denon,

Just a couple of small questions about streaming agreements:

After all, there’s a lot of talk about what’s legal, what’s not legal and so on. (Many countries have different rules in these areas) And you see / have seen various software that has offered streaming, where it has suddenly been removed.

  1. The agreements that Denon makes with eg Tidal, BeatPort, SoundCloud etc - how do they position us as users?

  2. Is there anything we should be aware of?

  3. What is the chance that the opportunity to access Tidal, for example, is suddenly removed?

If this is answered somewhere else, I´m sorry to bring it up - but I didnt seem to find any direct answers on this elsewhere.

Best regards Engell

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It’ll be only fair for each user to identify whether streaming or any other music playback is right for them. Not only do Different countries have different laws and guidelines, but even different venues are licensed differently and even different types of event will make a difference.

Like for me, it’s ok to stream and play all my hard drive tunes at any party that is family and friends of the hirer, like a wedding or birthday. It’s ok too if a room full of people have paid for a meal but the disco is supplied “free” to everyone who bought the meal, like on valentines night or a Christmas meal party disco night. Also I’m ok to stream and play from a hard drive or original formats if I’m at a bar or public house (pub) where it’s free entry to all patrons attending.

But if I’m doing an event where people have paid on the door or in advance because of the music being the main event then the rules are different in my country. Myself or the venue have to buy a licence for the night. It’s usually based on how many people are going to be there and how many hours of music will be played. The licence is less than 50euros and overrides ANY stipulations about copyright or playback limitations.

As I mainly do family events, in venues licensed for copyright music playback, I don’t need to worry about whether I can or can’t stream.

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Things may change in the future, right now I would not take the chance with streaming. Yes, it’s handy for the odd track you may not have, but worryingly some people are turning up at gigs relying on it.

VDJ has had music services for some time now. Their original provider (where you could cache files) got shut down with no notification and people were turning up at gigs finding their music was no longer available. Above that the Spotify plugin got disabled also with no notification and caused some people issues.

Bottom line for me from a professional point of view is that these services are a nice addon but if someone is paying you for a gig you really should have the required music physically available.

Funnily enough the same questions Kim has posted above have been asked many times before but no companies ever give a conclusive answer.

As a open format dj, I also prefer to bring all my own music - have almost 70K tracks with me everytime.

But there is no doubt, streaming is the future - on good and bad…

Some of the comments I get from Pio-djs that I´m trying to “convert”, is that “its cool you can stream, but its not legal”…and I know different countries have different rules - so my questions are more ment as “do Denon have any special aggreements, that makes this fantastic solution legal written in to their contracts?”

Can a user say that “since I´m using Tidal from a Denon product, Tidal says its ok”… :face_with_monocle: (I know we probably cant and that its only wishfull thinking :slight_smile: )

Once again, nothing negative in my post… I just would like to get a bit more info on the area, so I get wiser :slight_smile:

Even tunes purchased from iTunes have restrictions on use. I suppose the venues license covers public use of recorded material (don’t quote me)

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I’d say deny, deny, deny and don’t worry about it. Your mileage may vary.

There does seem to be an issue with communication from Denon. Gary has gone, Chloe has gone and Paul vary rarely posts any more. The regular guys who seem to respond are software or hardware engineers.

Denon should really assign a member of staff on a corporate level to answer things like this. that is sorely missing from the forum.

Not a criticism, just an observation.

I dont hope my questions are ‘marked’ as critisism either - I just find it interesting if there are any ‘permission’ added to the agreements, for us as users.

From a company standpoint, though, specifics on this topic aren’t necessarily an advantage. There are a lot of different laws in a lot of different countries, and, frankly, they probably don’t want to get into it too much or lay down anything that might seem binding in some jurisdiction. I think from their perspective it’s the DJ’s own responsibility to figure it out in their own country and act based on what they think is appropriate for them. This goes for both the legality of materials used in live scenarios and how long you can expect any of this to continue… or even necessarily confirming anything I’m saying here. Are you guys worried about pre-paying for some yearlong subscription and it suddenly not being supported? I’d say stick to month to month.

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Well I dont expect it to stop working either, thinking how much effort they have made to give us this feature. :pray:

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It’s like a gun purchase maybe some

A gun can be used for right or wrong

A device Or it’s maker isn’t wrong, when that device can stream, and can be used in any country, for any sort of event, amidst any sort of venue or local license.

Do Colt or Winchester or Glock fit GPS to their guns to stop them firing in certain areas? Of course not, it’s up to the owner to use it how they feel is right in their particular situation

Ok Guys :joy:

Thanks for all your input in all directions… I actually just was curious whether there was something in their terms/ agreements that we as users could lean on to, regarding using the streaming capabilities.

I will let this post be for the next couple of hours and then delete it… If it continues down this path, it will end up looking as some sort of complaint, which was not intended.

I think if you just mark this last post of yours as a solution the thread will lock on its own in a day or so. I don’t find this thread to be too complaining or hostile or anything. If InMusic feels it’s too much ‘exposure’ for us to be getting into this topic at all, they can certainly delete it themselves.

But there is no solution made to the thread. So no reason to do that

Well, I mean the solution is just not to talk about it on here probably… as in they might not want to get into it too much for reasons of their own. Marking your comment saying there technically is no solution, though, would kind of be brilliant.

I have asked for the post to be deleted - with nothing else than us guessing, its just assumptions all the way. And assumptions is not solutions :slightly_smiling_face:

It’s your thread, so do whatever you want, obviously, but it’s not as if other people aren’t going to ask the same question, and this could be a useful pointer for them if they bother to do a search.

I hear you, just feel that the post got ‘off track’ with assumptions and so on, instead of waiting for a factual comment.

And then it could be more confussing for others.

Please refer to the service agreements of the particular service you are using. We act only as a vessel to access the service similar to how a smartphone or tablet does.

No.

Not sure I see the point of this hypothetical question but these are early days of streaming in the DJ booth and the future is looking bright. I’m not concerned.

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Thanks for the reply @Jwill :slight_smile:

It was only a question that popped up in my head, as we have seen other softwaresolutions providing the streaming functionality, where it suddenly as been removed. Nothing else :slight_smile:

But yes we are in the early days, and I agree, it sure looks bright, seeing what Denons brings to the table.

Thanks again for the answers.

Best regards!

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