Slightly, yes, even at zero pitch. Still not anywhere near bit-perfect out the digital output, but a teeny tiny bit less processed than with the Elastique algorithm switched on. Obviously if key lock is on and you’re away from zero pitch, you’re going to be aggressively processing to some degree no matter what improvements are made.
So you did a sweep from 50hz to 6khz and found a bunch of distortion and noise?
Have you tried testing the SC5000 and X1800 with this method separately, and using both the digital and analog outputs on each? I’d be interested in seeing the results. I’d also be interested in seeing a baseline piece of gear’s results.
can you explain ?
the sweep is from 20Hz to 20kHz. More info:
Sure, take a look:
You seem to be using two topics simultaneously to say the same thing - Maybe a moderator could merge the duplicates to save time
Maybe a moderator can delete the whole thing, keep pretending everything’s great in top of the line Prime
And…there it is, the unsolicited dig. Was an interesting technical read right up to that point.
So you’re mostly just talking about the high-frequency roll-off?
Listen, 1:44 - Harsh glitches, sweep echoes. Brutal reproduction.
Highs are dull, mids are muddy, nowhere near a reference player.
Agreed on the current release firmware for the SC Primes, especially with key correction on and using the SPDIF output for some reason, though the roll-off is obviously present on the analog outputs, too.
Any opinions on the X1800 itself? I think it’s lagging behind the X1700, DJM900NXS2, DB4, and MP2015 in terms of processing transparency going SPDIF in to SPDIF (or USB) out.
Typical with digital, I prefer to run external DAC’s, Isolators, EQ’s and Preamps to analog mixers / summers. No glitches and much higher quality.
Check out the X1700, DJM900NXS2, DB4, and MP2015 with Pioneers into them with SPDIFs and you might change your mind. Those are four digital mixers with remarkable sound. I’ve owned a lot of mixers, analog & digital, and really only keep around the D4 and the 4D anymore among the analog ones because of their extensive VCA/DCA stuff that’s rare and because they’re fun to use. Even the new Isonoe mixer is only advertised as beating every other analog mixer they’ve bench tested, not digital. The MP2015, in particular, is very hard to beat.
The SC Primes with their current firmware are the first digital player with a digital output where for some reason the analog outputs sound more dynamic and musical to me. I realize the DACs on them are excellent, but are similar AKMs to the CDJ-2000NXS2, and the CDJ-2000NXS2 still sounds better using the SPDIF into those four mixers than using the CDJ analog outs… as it should.
If you test the SPDIFs on the CDJs since the CDJ-1000mk3 on, they’re not doing anything to the data at zero pitch. So they’re basically a perfect transport when at zero pitch or (as close to perfect as possible) at any pitch with keylock off. So I suspect it’s the measured non-bit-perfect aspect of the SC Primes that might be even worse on their digital outputs, possibly a sample rate conversion snafu or additional compression or something. I suspect this is all resolvable in firmware, though. Ditto with whatever signature the X1800 has.
I was looking into the MP2015, have to give it a test. Thanks for the suggestions!
Do you know if the new c6000’s have the same high end roll of problem?
I convinced myself I wanted to go for a pair of cdj2000’s after following this forum a year or so ago, due to the sound quality problem, but never got there. Now that the 6000’s are out I’m tempted again for the denons but find the sound quality essential to my decision. Would choose sound quality over all new features every day of the week.
If there is any post on the forum that talks about this and you could point me to it I would highly appreciate!
There is more and worse degradation going on than the treble roll-off. I don’t see why the bigger models wouldn’t have the same digital out sound, as the roll-off with Elastique OFF appears to be a firmware issue that is the result of sample rate conversions and, to a lesser extent, a lack of attenuation ‘pad’ for the processing that’s apparently tripping an additional band-specific limiter. The SRC is also producing nonlinear and intermodulation distortion besides its own multiple stages of additional low-pass filtering. If they are different, it’s an arbitrary feature bracketing thing. The solution is the -6dB processing pad and either allowing us to manually choose the sample rate of the layer & spdif in Utility/Preferences to match most of our tracks or having layer & spdif change automatically to match the track rate with perhaps only tracks over 96khz being converted if InMusic wants to keep support for tracks over 96khz sample rate.
InMusic says the x1850 has the same digital processing sound quality as the x1800 with the new firmware… other than the quantize effect start if we want to construe that as digital-to-digital sound quality. If you are buying new, you will probably be buying the x1850, which seems to be tweaked both for asthetics and to reduce the chances of physical/electrical problems. Sound seems slightly positively improved on the new mixer firmware that already tested well previously.
Thanks Reticuli for you’re detailed reply! I’m planing on keeping my DB4 to mix, I was hoping they would had rectified the sound quality problems by now… thinking I will have to wait and see what happens before I take the plunge, might go back to the cdj’s idea. I really prefer the personal tagging system you get with rekordbox too.
Hi, can anyone confirm if this was fixed? I see that last year a firmware update was schedule but would like to see if was actually released and tested. Many thanks in advance