SC5000 High End Roll-off


#230

Good analogy! Another one is that of a worn out tape head. But only old people would know about that :smile:


#231

If the tape head was replaced and aligned properly or that person was made to move from in front of the speakers, would the sound suddenly be dramatically more “pretty” and emotionally moving? Doubt it. Maybe a little, but not at the magnitude of difference I hear by default on these players even ignoring the top-end attenuation and turning the keylock off as compared to the NXS2 system. While I’d prefer to DJ on the SC Prime system from a useability standpoint, I’d probably prefer to listen to the NXS2 system with a person standing in front of the speakers than to the current SC Prime system’s firmware with no one blocking the speaker, assuming we’re at or above zero pitch or key lock off on both. Go keylock on and below zero and this tips increasingly toward the SC Primes the further you move both from zero just because that behavior has historically been so destructive to the audio.

On these keylocked DJ systems there’s going to be a point in their identical below-zero pitch setting that the sound quality tips in favor of the new Denons, as basically it’s a matter of when the high degradation of the NXS2 doing something you ought to avoid on them gets worse than the SC Primes’ default slight omnipresent processing degradation added with the (less severe than NXS2) degradation of its keylock people are justifiably being encouraged not to avoid exploiting. However, that last point that the SC Primes are carefree with keylock still doesn’t change that comparing the two, if you know how to avoid the flaws in the Pioneers from the CDJ-1000mk3 to present day, you can probably get better sound on them than appears currently possible on the SC Primes’ firmware. Thankfully, this signature is not horrible… it’s just subtlety there, sort of mates well with vinyl, and is probably not written in stone into the SC Primes.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I can be patient with this, and anyway my ears are pretty frigg’n shot compared to 20 years ago. But yeah, audio degradation is cumulative, and optimally I don’t want any more to contend with than necessary, possibly more so because of my old ears. In the meantime, I try and take advantage of that keylock whenever possible and slow down some tunes I wouldn’t normally on other players. Life’s too short to get so hung up on something like this that you don’t take advantage of the positives it comes with, even while it might be getting resolved behind the scenes.


#232

100% agree with this ! I do not mind waiting but not a another year or on a next generation players like SC5000 “MK2” … :frowning: I’m only 24 years old I’m pretty sure with loud sound in club i can’t hear above 18KHZ… and guys a question ? what’s the dac brand inside the SC5000 ? i know for pioneer Nexus 2 it’s AKM ERITA AK4490 but what about our favorite player ?


#233

Sadly guys for the audiences most of us are playing for, they wouldn’t know sound quality if it knocked the upside the heads! But I digress…

They know how compressed files sound through cheap ear buds.


#234

Hearing damage is characterized by a changed threshold of perception, so if the sound system can reproduce it you should be able to hear it if it’s loud enough, whether that will be low enough distortion to sound any good or is healthy is another matter, though.

I assume the SC Primes are using AKM, because the X1800 is using comparable AKMs to competitors. There was a response to me on some Denon DJ page on Facebook somewhere about this. All the top DAC makes now are so state-of-the-art that it really doesn’t make that much difference, anyway. The other analog circuitry, clock, power supply, and the digitial signal processing are going to be far bigger determinants of what comes out of the players given the same source content than the exact DAC on it. It’s possible to make modest DACs sound excellent and elite DACs sound lousy. Are you using an analog mixer?


#235

ahhh yes i understand better thank mate for taking the time to respond :slight_smile:

Actually not i have my Xone DB4 so it’s actually a fully digital mixer sound really really good btw just sad we don’t have a real update since 2015… and yes sometime a friend a mine have a DJR 400 so it happens to me to borrow it aha !


#237

Don’t know, really.

Perhaps somewhere here: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=mnP%2B7534K9mIv1LP19CfMw%3D%3D&fcc_id=Y4O-JP07


#238

We have some interresting technical informations over here !

but this no… “Frequency Range 22–22,000 Hz”. they do not even specify the feequency range it’s not professionnal


#239

It was an old FCC link from the beginning of the SC rumors. You also see a BlueTooth and WiFi test, so future proof.

I also think that therefor there will not be a MK2 in the coming years, but I do think extra devices will be Primed or start as Prime. The SC5000M was to sway turntablists. But DenonDJ need to cover all layers of DJ-ing. Bedroom and the likes. Now it just needs other Prime gear. Absolutely not forgetting the software side, of course.


#240

You’re in for a treat with the E&S. I’m testing the SC5000M analog outs right now and they’re very nice sounding direct and into my analog mixers. The processing “gloss” sort of works with analog, especially the dryer-sounding variety analog mixers. I definitely do not feel like I’m losing out compared to the digital mixers and SPDIF on these players. To my ears InMusic did not short change on the analog circuitry. I might even prefer the sound of the SC Primes analog with some poor quality MP3s with shouty upper mids that can be a bit much on revealing top-end digital mixers… well, the MP2015, at least. Need to hook up the DB4 too and some others to try. I’d only used the primes with the X1800 and the Rane.


#241

Going to return to the topics here

I see all denon dj teams are stay far from this topic.


#242

Sadly and 100 agree… I have a friend who work for the French denon distributor he was not aware about this major problem, he will send an email directly to inmusic maybe we’ll get an answer


#243

Hey @Chloe_DENONDJ why do you avoid this thread when we ask a answers


#244

This is a rather large topic - what is the main concern you wish for me to address?


#245

As you can see the High End Roll Off is a major issues for all of us since more than 1year, in august we have a respond by the denon team and since nothing, they said they would come back to us quickly.

So my answer are simple : it’s resolvable by firmware update or it’s a hardware problem so nothing can be done ?

We just want communication with Denon

Thank @Chloe_DENONDJ :slight_smile:


#246

Not major

Not “all of us”

I agree to think it should be to be changed or adjusted if not with degrade to exist of functions


#247

Major issue. Not for those who don’t care.

(Flagged before edit)


#248

It has been now just under the 3 month since the paul of Denon DJ has said he will tell more to us when the technical team Have news. Is that Paul still at denon dj? Is there still a technical team at denon dj?

But i don’t understand mate it’s your message right ? so you are agree with me ? :slight_smile: Do you want an answers ?

Sorry but disagree with you, yes it’s a major issue and all the people who buys the SC5000 are passionnate or care about the sound quality so they need to be aware !

I hope to have an answer in any case @Chloe_DENONDJ is aware


#249

Yes we to disagree. I am passiioned over Have nice clean wav audio files, not just MP3s. But “major” to me is to crash, or to freeze or to lock ups as the people we play out to will notice and groan.

But this slight hi end question is just a “nice to have a improve if possible sometime”.

This own thread has had for people to use uncalibrates test monitor tools to reveal a difference and it not of really notice on screenshot even at then. If’s it needs DJs to use even test equipment or little programs to show other DJs what the hi end does then the listen difference has only minor


#250

How would you have a digital audio connection calibrated? It’s bit perfect - which is the whole point of digital connections. And how would you calibrate algorithms running on a computer? With the same input they give the same results. Always. Everything happens in the digital domain. There is nothing to calibrate.