I was SO beyond excited to finally purchase the SC5000M, but ever since I opened it I’ve been floored by the disastrous performance of Engine Prime (onboard SC5000M + the Desktop app) re: analyzing track information, particularly beatgrids.
I’ve driven myself crazy spending time with the unit this weekend, because I really want to love it. I enjoy the motorized platter so much, but my appreciation of the device ends there. I’ve been unable to properly focus on my mixing, since the beatgrids are as messed up as they are.
I’m hoping that a more experienced SC5000M user here might have some insight for me as to how I can improve the experience-- before I decide to return my recent purchase.
The Problem
I’ve given the SC5000M different flavors of electronic music, house, dubstep, etc. and different beatgrid issues persist.
Example
A 106 BPM song, very easy/straightforward beat that the device should have zero problem with (re: analyzing and setting the beatgrid correctly). When I load the song into the deck/player,
The first 15-20s of the song have the beatgrid lined up correctly. Then…
By the 30s mark, the beatgrid is already off.
By the 1:00 minute mark and the chorus of the song, the beatgrid is more off than before.
Thinking that I could fix the issue, I manually adjusted the beatgrid by holding the ‘Zoom/Grid Adjust’ button, then moving the jog wheel to lineup the beatgrid, and selecting ‘Done.’
That fixed the problem for another 10-15s of the song, before the beatgrid is off AGAIN.
And so, this issue has continued to appear in multiple genres, different songs etc. and it’s driving me crazy. The SC5000M is gorgeous, and I adore it from a hardware perspective-- but the underlying software is so bafflingly flawed that I am unable to keep a consistent mix (i.e. the lowest/basic expectation of functionality), and so I am ready to return the player, unless one of you may be able to help me.
Thank you for reading, and looking forward to your input. Best regards.
You’ll need to use flexigrids in engine prime/ engine dj 2.0 to get beatgrids to line up on certain songs, all the way through - some songs are just like that
As @mufasa said, it seems you need to give the whole collection a chance to reanalyse.
When Engine DJ scans the tracks it trusts the BPM on the first pass. This speeds up the process a little but to get a good grid you’ll need to give it a second pass with the re-analysis option.
Hey thanks for getting back to me, sorry to say these songs all keep the same tempo-- no flexigrids needed. That’s why this is so puzzling. I’m going to return the players, and maybe try the Denon series again (perhaps the 6000s) in the future.
@mufasa and @MrWilks thank you both for your responses, I appreciate your help. After analyzing, and reanalyzing, the issue still persists. I’m going to return the players for now, although I will admit I adore them from a hardware perspective and will give them another chance in the future (esp. the 6000s if I can get my hands on them). Thanks anyway and best wishes.
This is a shame but I can understand your frustration. If you feel that they aren’t right for you then it may be better to wait a little but these really aren’t a bad bit of kit at all and it sounds like after re-analysis, the new beat grid may not be transferred to the stick to play on. Also, if any of your tracks are rips from vinyl then they could slip out due to wow & flutter on the recording.
It’s also a possibility that there is a fault with one of the motor on the players
Dubstep can be a little trickier to ge right with BPMs and so can Drum & Bass but this usually leaves the tracks needing a “X2” double of the beat grid. Slipping out usually isn’t a thing. The latest firmware updates along with the desktop Engine DJ may make things better (if they aren’t already). There was some improvements in a few of these areas this last few months.
Rescanning your library a second time with the re-analysis option would then give you a more stable grid where you can then export this to a stick and it will work tighter when playing back.
I’d be sorry to see you go but if things aren’t working in a way that you can confidently perform then I understand. Maybe if one of our more experienced users or representatives would be able to guide you through any troubleshooting you need? @Reese
Certainly the troublesome tracks need to go through the EngineDJ desktop. There you can change a track’s grid by manually entering bpm or change the grid by expanding, contracting and flexi-grids (using anchors).
@rhythm: Although you stated you’ve returned the units already, you can still use EngineDJ (it’s free!) to build your music collection database (if you’d want to put some time in that process and be ready for the 6000’s).
I did the import from Traktor when Engine was first released and it took me 2 weeks to fine tune everything in EP and this was just for a small portion.
In Traktor most of us use the gear to adjust grids. It’s rare to just sit with a bare laptop to work. Now a Traktor user will come here and wonder why he/she can’t grid from the gear. Now we gotta tell em you got to use a laptop for that.
These people came here to import their collection and ditch the laptop. They also came here thinking the decks can beatgrid.
I completely understand and agree. Denon wins w/ the hardware, the players, they’re things of beauty-- Engine vs Traktor, it’s a different workflow, and I just feel more comfortable in the Traktor ecosystem.
Yes updated to the latest 2.0 on the computer as well as the players. Although the overall experience didn’t work out for me, the hardware was absolutely impressive and I hope to return to the prime series later in the future.
Absolutely, and thank you for your message. I agree that the Denon kit is really, really nice. I just felt more comfortable w/ Traktor’s system overall and will be returning to that for now. I still plan to stay in the loop w/ Denon, news etc. because the ecosystem is refreshingly innovative!
I bought two 5000M’s this weekend and I’m completely in love with them.
FYI - No need to re-analyze your Traktor tracks if you felt the beatgrids were good. Engine DJ would have imported them over without change. I’ve done this with my Serato library. Also I’m finding that Engine DJ has improved over the years and does better than Serato in analyzing some of my tracks.
