Quantize to the nearest beat instead of the next beat, while hotcue triggering

#1

Hi,

I hope I will explain myself properly. Let’s suppose that during a performance, the “sync” (in beat or in bar) and “quantize” (1 beat value) options are always enabled. Also, let’s assume that the hotcues are properly set in a track (namely “track1”).

As I understand, the quantize feature allows (amongst other things) to trigger hotcues (set in track1) in such a way that they will always remain perfectly aligned to the grid (of the playing track “track2”). So far, so good.

Performing with many other DJ systems or softwares, the quantize option allows me to trigger a hotcue “inaccurately”, so the quantize feature corrects the inaccuracy by triggering the hotcue in track1 perfectly aligned to the nearest beat in track2. It doesn’t matter if I press the hotcue pad a few milliseconds before or after the beat, beacuse the quantize feature corrects it. However, in the SC5000, the quantize feature is implemented differently: the quantize option corrects the inaccuracy by placing the hotcue perfectly aligned to the NEXT beat, which is not the expected behavior.

I understand the quantize feature as some kind of “magnet” to the NEAREST beat (grid line), however, in the SC5000, the quantize feature is implemented as a “magnet” to the NEXT beat. This is not the desired behavior since if I press a hotcue pad just a few milliseconds after a beat has played, the hotcue triggers in the next beat (the correction is forwarded to the next beat, while it should be backwarded to the previous beat).

Therefore, it only corrects the inaccuracy if the pad is pressed before the beat, but not after the beat.

Am I missing something? Is there an option to change this behavior and set the quantize feature as one would expect (align to the nearest beat)?? I can record a video of what I am trying to say, if necessary.

7 Likes
#2

Up with the nearest beat!!

1 Like
#3

I don’t get it…can you record a video?

#4

I will try to explain it better, if you still don’t get it I will record a video on monday (I’m out until monday).

To simplify things as much as possible, imagine you have two tracks (track1 and track2) running at 60 bpm (one beat per second). The beats of the tracks occur at t=0, t=1, t=2, t=3, t=4, t=5, … Every 4 beats is 1 bar, so at t=0 there is a bar, at t=4 the next bar, at t=8 the next, and so on.

Now, imagine that track2 is playing, and you want to bring track1 into the mix, at t=128 of track2. Track1 has a hotcue located at t=0. Therefore, the mix will be ok if the beat at t=0 of track1 is aligned with the beat at t=128 of track2.

If you press the hotcue pad at t=127.9, then it’s fine, quantize works as expcted. BUT, if you press the hotcue pad at t=128.1, then the hotcue (t=0 in track1) will be aligned with t=129 of track2. This shouldn’t happen, pressing the pad at t=128.1 should align the hotcue to t=128. I don’t understand why the quantize feature have been implemented in this way.

All the other DJ softwares that I tried (Serato, Rekordbox, Mixxx) work in the following way: Pressing the hotcue pad at any time between t=127.50 and t=128.49 will trigger the hotcue at t=128.

However, the SC500 works in the following way: Pressing the hotcue pad at any time between t=127.01 and t=127.99 will trigger the hotcue at t=128. But pressing the pad at t=128.01 will align to t=129! This should not happen!

Where can I ask Denon DJ to implement the quantize feature as expected?

2 Likes
#5

Its more a request than an expectation.

Also, for a hot cue to trigger, before you press it, would be sort of like time travel, wouldn’t it

#7

Change your beat/loop to 4 in prefs and it should work. Maybe work on your timing.

#8

Isn’t this the whole purpose of “quantize” that you don’t have to be spot on, or am I missing something.

I do agree with @ElTitoFranki that it should move to the nearest beat and not to the next beat. When you would apply “to the next beat” you always have to be too early to start while with “to the nearest beat” it will allow you to be a little bit off, no matter if you release a bit before or just a bit after the beat.

The CDJ also use the “nearest beat”

6 Likes
#9

I noticed that but why it does not work like the “nearest beat” ! i always have a delay with quantize

#10

Yeah quantize is not good on EP and the 5000’s I always shut it off… I also noticed Laidback Luke shuts it off too

#11

I totally understand this and I’ll +1 It too.

It should stick to the upcoming beat if the cue button has been pressed momentarily before the beat and if it’s been pressed momentarily afterwards (as is often the case) it should drop in where it SHOULD be in the track (like slip mode).

It’s how it works this way in software so would guess it’s a different style when using hardware.

No “time travel” needed. Just needs the track to snap to the previous beat as if it had been pressed by advancing the track enough to be in sync.

I noticed it’s a bit strange on this front after using software for so long.

1 Like
#12

I would actually love if the Quantize function was “split” in 2 in the settings.

  1. Quantize Loop-function (On/Off)

  2. Quantize Hot Cue-function (On/Off)

Then I would be able to ensure that the Loop function always was ´on spot´ and I would be able to do the fast Hot Cue triggering without it absolutly had to correct itself to the beat.

4 Likes
#13

Hi there and thank you for your comments. I have passed this onto the dev team so they are aware of your suggestion.

Please keep them coming :slight_smile:

J

4 Likes
#14

Hi Frankie, I also wanted to give you my personal experience as a DJ who has used Traktor, Rekordbox, Serato and Engine Prime for many years.

For me, Traktor seems to operate in a way in which I think you are requesting in that if you have a 1 beat value set in your quantisation settings then, if you are within 1/2 a beat either side, it will jump to the desired hotcue/loop point - basically it is forgiving for a little early or late execution (within the quantise settings).

Serato for me operates in a similar fashion, though I’ve found that it can sometimes preview/overlap the next hotcue you jump too if you are a little too early.

Both Rekordbox and Engine prime (SC5000/Ms) work in a similar (but different to Traktor/Serato) fashion in that if you miss the beat by just a few milliseconds it will waiting until the next beat before performing the jump.

Each way I don’t feel is either right or wrong, for me it was just something I had to be conscious of and adapt to when I use different platforms. I agree that it would be good to look at an option within the software for either mode of operation and I’ve discussed with the the dev team and the are aware and looking at possible solutions to this.

As a Traktor user when I was jumping to hotcue or loop it was easy in the sense that I didn’t need to think about it much, but when at the time when I moved to Rekordbox I certainly had to be far more conscious of executing the jump early to ensure it was in time. Once I’d got used to both ways I was able to perform comfortably.

I hope this helps.

J

3 Likes
#15

Thanks @Jay_DenonDJ for your answer. You got my point.

It would be great to have the possibility to set quantize to the nearest beat. I hope this will be implemented in a near future.

Best, Frankie

2 Likes
#16

it would have been really cool if it had worked in the same way as Serato,

2 Likes
#17

Thank you for your suggestions, I know it’s all down to preference and the dev team are looking at options.

Keep them coming guys!

Thanks J

5 Likes
#18

Jay, did you get the part about splitting the Quantize in 2 in the settings?

1 Like
#19

Yes indeed and that has been passed on

4 Likes
#20

Cool, Thanks for the fast reply :+1:

2 Likes
#21

I am coming from Traktor and love how quantize allows for you to drop loops and cues points intuitively. I use lots of beat juggling and looping that require fast jumping between cues and loops if I have to correct my phasing each time I jump to a new spot in the track, I can’t mix with my style. I use hot cues and loops constantly and is part of what drove me to choosing your media players; offering 8 loops and 8 cue points per track twice as many as I had in traktor, but if they don’t function with precision I feel I would be better off using traktor controllers. I hope this can be changed because many others feel the way that I do and these media players have great potential! Just this and a few other little things and they’ll be excellent!

1 Like