I have recently bought a SC5000 and X1800 set up and I absolutely love them!
One thing i have noticed is that when i am beat matching and i set the pitch, at say +0.8%, i will be in the mix and the tracks are going out and i look at the pitch and it has moved a small amount either above 0.8% of below 0.8%. I cannot see that the pitch control has actually moved and it is quite stiff so i think it would be difficult for it to move on its own.
Has anyone else come across this? If so, is it a firmware issue?
Funny you should mention that considering it was part of a discussion in another thread yesterday. If it’s what I think you’re talking about, that’s just because the pitch faders are high resolution and they’ll slightly settle over time occasionally to a different value. It’s nothing to worry about and not a bad thing. They are just higher resolution than most other DJ players at some of their pitch ranges. Even an analog turntable’s fader will do that, but you don’t ever have a readout with two decimal places. Just nudge it back if you need to or ignore it.
If the tracks are exactly the same BPM (say, they’re your productions), then you should probably be putting the pitch faders at zero, anyway. If they’re not for sure the same BPM, then you should be using your ears more and realize that slight occasional wobbling between values is of little consequence when you have at least double the pitch resolution of the industry standard and this feature is certainly not contributing to more drift when in the blend.
The resolution could probably be made even higher and would do that even more. With true 14bit pitch faders in something like VDJ or Deckadance, you can get 0.01 increments even on some rather high ranges, it’s not easy to intentionally dial in a specific hundredths digit at such high ranges, and not necessary to even try. However, this is more analog-like, so with higher pitch resolution, smaller nudges still have an effect rather than being ignored… to the point that true 14bit faders that are fully registered at their max resolution always cause a change with even the smallest movement.
Thanks for your response and it’s good to see that it’s not just my decks doing it!
I agree it’s not a big problem but once I have beat matched perfectly I don’t like having to start making pitch changes whilst in the mix as it takes away attention from eq’ing.
As the actual pitch fader isn’t being touched, could this be a firmware issue?
Hey there @Sebtaylor, sorry to hear about your pitch fader issues on your SC5000. At this point I recommend connecting with our Technical Support team for assistance, they will be able to help troubleshoot, and rule out what the nature of the issue is. Filling out a Denon DJ Support Form is the best place to get started.
In case you’re wondering what has informed me on this topic… I own 20 units of the highest-resolution pitch faders ever manufactured for the DJ market. I also own 5 Prime players. The 20 obscure units with the super high res pitch faders on VDJ or Deckadance do this more than the Prime players. You can also run tests with analog TTs and DVS to see a similar effect.
If it’s just occasional fluctuation of the furthest right decimal (the .00 place), then it can’t possibly be wobbling between increments enough to substantially affect your beatmatching unless you’re talking about +10 minute blends not holding on their own… which is an unrealistic expectation even with vinyl. You’re probably incorrectly blaming these normal occasional tiny changes in the hundredth decimal place instead of the real likely culprits: issues with your beatmatching, issues with wow & flutter of the recorded track itself, or, of course, a possible problem with the players’ own playback time consistency independent of the pitch readout. The latter has been an issue on both the M and the non-M models, though timekeeping glitches previously never showed up on the pitch readout and for the most part it seems like they’ve been resolved. It’s possible there’s still an occasional timekeeping issue with the playback I wouldn’t entirely rule out considering the number of prior issues with it. That’s definitely not related to the hundredth decimal place occasionally changing on its own, though.
If it is what I think it is, then it’s not a firmware problem. This is a normal side effect of having more analog-like pitch fader resolution. Smaller registered increments mean it’s more likely to occasionally flicker between two of them. There’s lubricant in there changing viscosity with operating temperature. Bass vibration. Gravity. Wind from the air moving it around subtlety. Etc. It’s only going to happen when the pitch fader is right at the boundary of two increments and shouldn’t be flickering between them rapidly or even often. While a smoothing function in the firmware could potentially be used to reduce this, it would introduce latency and make the player slower to fully respond to changes in the pitch fader… a solution worse than the minor quirk. If there wasn’t even a pitch readout, you’d never even know it was happening. DJ software with only one decimal place often has all that going on in the background. It’s benign.
If it’s something huge going on, like pitch changing in the tenth decimal (the .0 place) when you’re at 20% or lower range, then it’s possible you have a defective fader.
Sorry, but that’s DJing. Unless you have two tracks with known identical BPMs (like because they’re your productions), you’re going to have to tweak the pitch fader a little occassionally when riding long blends. You have to do that even on Technics 1200s with their drive system.
Great technical post. Could potentially be a software issue too in how the “warping” of Prime tracks are. I’ve noticed that if I’ve set markers the track speeds up and slows down, not keeping an accurate BPM throughout (exactly as you describe above, you have to work the mix). Haven’t noticed if the BPM flutters or changes on the screen, too busy mixing, but this could possibly be a factor.
Maybe. I don’t know why the faders wouldn’t just be 14bit and registering even smaller increments at this length… granted at 4% maybe it’d remain at 0.01 or run in the background at 0.005. They do jump around quite a bit for the still crude increment size compared to software. If they were getting even smaller increments, this jumping around (to the smaller adjacent digits) wouldn’t be as troublesome probably. Makes me wonder if the GO with a shorter fader might have the same increments and just be more responsive to smaller movement.
With true 14bit pitch faders in something like VDJ or Deckadance, you can get 0.01 increments even on some rather high ranges, it’s not easy to intentionally dial in a specific hundredths digit at such high ranges, and not necessary to even try. However, this is more analog-like, so with higher pitch resolution, smaller nudges still have an effect rather than being ignored… to the point that true 14bit faders that are fully registered at their max resolution always cause a change with even the smallest movement.