How can I improve Playlist load speed?

A simple usb2 drive at 25MB/s is more than sufficient to play. Never said the SSD was the solution. Just use SSD for durability and possible impact.

Like I said, it’s the database.

You are 100% right. Apologies for my mistake and thanks for the correction - I have edited my post accordingly.

It’s worth saying that the db also keeps the artwork of the files in a BLOB column (AlbumArt column), hence those 6gb don’t really represent the columns the unit should access when searching/initial loading.

For the record, I have a Samsung SSD EVO of 1TB that I bought for about £100. It does perform better than the HDD I used to use. I still experience what I personally consider an unsatisfactory performance when searching (it takes about 9 secs). Accessing to crates takes about 10 secs when I access the first crate, then it’s almost instantly.

It’s worth saying that this is not stopping me from enjoying the 2 SC5000s I have. Prepping and creating crates helps, and it’s definitely 10000 times better than when using vinyls or CDs - that’s out of the question. But I wish this was bettered so it could match the experience of browsing music with Traktor or Serato, where you could navigate your library much faster, which is great when you are not sure what tune to play next and you want to keep browsing for inspiration, or you simply don’t quite remember the title and need to perform some trial-error searches until you find the right one.

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The Elastique stuff is licensed from an outside company, not InMusic’s own authorship. The rest of the audio processing Prime is doing is actually somewhat problematic right now… which is certainly consistent with a big, ambitious product introduction with some kinks left to iron out – audio, database, etc.

You have some interesting points on the SQL databases I think they should look into, but I would also not discount the possibility that there is excessive back & forth read/write actions occurring on the drives rather than simply using the on-board fast volatile memory. This might explain not only the slow search but also the current poor support for read-only modes.

Are the FFT analysis files embedded in the database itself that’s being searched? That in combination with the lack of 3NF & FTS3 for fast text search might account for both the large databases and some strangely-long search times.

You are right it probably could be better optimised behind the scenes for example I know adding new tracks to prime takes an age as it checks each file again and god knows what else, the other day side by side I added 1500 tracks to both rekordbox and prime at the same time, rekordbox had imported and analysed them before prime had even finished 50% importing them :smile:

And this is kind of my point - hdd or ssd, the access speed suggests that it is lazy coding somewhere in the DB as Serato has no such issues.

Not necessarily of über importance to repair for Denon, but definitely something that isn’t as it should be.

A tag to it - it works fine on the native player, it’s the linked player that has the issues. Sorry, should’ve mentioned that.

Boring myself here with edits, sorry but it won’t let me write another post. I think, and I’m definitely no software expert, the problem comes as it seems to re-read and re-load the DB every time you step back through playlists, rather than the structure is written into memory for access. I definitely need to do the video of it…

Don’t Serato and other software have the benefit of utilizing operating system indexing and other operations, or are they entirely separate search systems (e.g. based on SQL, etc)?

Anyway, this is complicated stuff. With increased complexity comes increased likelihood of the need (read that: opportunities) to optimize things later. That doesn’t mean you want to pretend they don’t exist, though, as some other posters are with other areas of Prime mentioned in this thread.

If that second sentence is a reference to the recording level thing… that was a matter of whether a defect even exists.

I edited the second comment, I was being a **** for no apparent reason.

I’ve replicated the error, it’s something to do with the HDD being accessed over the network. Don’t do YouTube though, so need to figure a way to get it linked up.

Edit: - https://vimeo.com/user101088838/review/349625871/a3d139e8c0

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Hmm… I wonder if it could be something related to what also causes next/previous and continuous to stop working, as those functions also work fine on the unit the drive is connected directly to but eventually glitch up on the linked units. I realize we’re talking an actual glitch vs just slow speed, but something about the network link is not quite right and there are multiple maladies people are reporting on it.

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I’ve added the video above in my post, you can see the error about 1:45-2 mins in.

I follow this topic with great interest.

The database is something that I really hope will be optimized. I am used to Denon and Numark units from 10 years ago with much faster database performance. With the power of the Prime units much more speed should be available if the optimization is done well.

I also already had an additional feature request with regard to the database speed: https://community.enginedj.com/t/substantial-improvements-to-library-search-performance-the-updating-thing-faster-search-larger-libraries

I do not consider it a bug, but rather something that definitely needs to be addressed

This is not a bug. Playlists load almost instantaneously in my environment on multiple media devices (flash & SSD).

Here are some tips to improve your result speed.

  • PRIME 4 supports a 2.5" SATA hard drive; either HDD or SSD. We’d recommend SSD as they are not only more reliable due to no moving mechanical parts, but they also have much quicker read/write speeds than conventional spinning disk drives (Yes, even if they are 3.0).
  • Choose a well-known brand drive like Sandisk, Samsung, Crucial, Intenso, WD.
  • All storage media connected to the PRIME 4 should be formatted to either FAT32 or exFAT with an MBR (Master Boot Record) style partition structure. For larger file systems (1TB and greater) we recommend formatting drives to the exFAT format.
  • There is no drive capacity size limitation, this is to support DJs with larger uncompressed file collections (WAV, AIFF, FLAC etc).
  • The size of your collection will impact search speed results. The larger the collection, the more metadata to search. We have tested collections up to 50’000 songs with good results. If your collection is larger than 50’000, we’d recommend either splitting your collection into 2 separate devices or partitions.
  • Ensure your collection is fully analyzed by Engine Prime before transferring to the drive.
  • PRIME 4 allows you to search within a variety of track metadata fields such as Artist, Title, Album, Comment etc… To reduce the search result time, tap the down arrow next to the search field magnifying glass. This will allow you to enable or disable metadata search fields by tapping them. Disable all fields that are not required for your search criteria.
  • If you use the search field regularly, you may find plugging in an external USB keyboard helpful, a handy shortcut to use is CTRL + F to bring up the search page on PRIME 4. Just to add, we are looking into optimizing the performance of read and search times for larger collections.

Just to add, we are actively looking into ways to optimize the result return speeds for larger collections. We plan to continually roll out improvements over time as progress is made.

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This isn’t a solution, it is a bug - watch the video, it works perfectly on the deck the HDD is connected to, it is slow on the network connected player.

Oh, and I’m not on Prime 4, but 2 x SCs and an X1800.

Thanks for taking the time to respond though, always good to know you guys are looking at what we are posting.

Perhaps @JWiLL has some advice to rebuild or repair the database in other way then from within Engine Prime. Perhaps sending the m.db to support and have a look.

Hey @yeltsin I have to agree with Reese and JWiLL - I have a 1TB SSD in my P4 and it’s bang on! Playlists load instantly, all is well. I also agree with other members thoughts that your database might well be corrupted in some way. But the bottom line, honestly mate, is that a HDD will be bad news. The disk is spinning at what… probably 5400 rpm with the drive head nanometres away from the spinning platters… all it will take it a bit of loud-ish music vibration to knock the head and boom… there goes your data and a corrupted database y’know?

I’m not having a go, really I promise you I’m not, but invest around a 100 $/£ in a decent SSD with a MBR/ExFat format and it’ll be loads better man. Promise :slight_smile:

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I’ll say it again, I’m not on a P4, the SC that the HDD is connected to works PERFECTLY. It is the network SC that has the issues. Please watch the video which shows it perfectly, but 100% it is nothing to do with the drive.

I’ve got both at my disposal…

Could it be the network cable then or the ethernet switch in the X1800?

Does the problem switch to the first SC if you connect the HDD to the second SC? Also try to connect network directly from SC to SC to omit the ethernet switch in the X1800.

I haven’t tried that - I’ll have a go today and see if it happens the other way around. Good idea!!!

Update - still does it the other way too.