First Gig With SC6000 Findings

Engine DJ Hardware Media Players
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We all work in different ways, My way has worked for me for over 25 years. I have gotten used to having that size of a collection between what I need for doing mobiles, weddings, events etc and my club collections too.

Personally, I couldn’t fathom messing around with loads of different drives and having to chop and change the content per the gig. That doesn’t mean “my way” is the only way.

A little update.

I have accepted that just searching for a track or artist is a no-go with the size of my collection. So to compensate I have spent a fair bit of time organizing my collections into a more Engine DJ way, so I can quickly navigate to a folder and then search.

It will be a bit of an ongoing task for a few months but certainly seeing better results now. if anyone is facing a similar problem to me feel free to give me a shout and I will show you how I fixed it

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Here’s how I work.

I’m still using Traktor, but I’ll apply the same principle when I eventually move over to Engine.

I carry a 1TB SSD with over 30,000 tracks on, …but only 8,000 of them are analysed/playlisted & in my working gig library.

So I do most gigs from the 8,000 song gig library, knowing that any other odd requests are only a search away in the rest of the drive.

Large capacity SSD’s are getting cheaper. You can probably bring your entire collection with you on a drive the size of a credit card (I use a Samsung T5). But you don’t need all those songs analysed & maxing out your database.

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That´s also a nice attemp. I have the big library completely analyzed (30k tracks - on inbuild ssd) but then stripped the most important tracks (3k - tracks) to sd card. I then normaly play from my sd card until i get a songrequest, which is´nt on my sd card. then I switch over to my ssd. And when there the track is also not found, I change to online service. (And when there it is also not to found - it is a not so popular track … and I skip it ;)))

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There is my old remark again… Numark D2 and Numark DDS hardware give instant results on large libraries to be honest :wink: They used to be slow too before an update did the magic

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As did the Denon HD2500 and HS5500 - and they could handle 5 x connected hard drives. Prime should be able to give instant results also. 2-step (or 2 stage) searching or filtering would be nice too, again, just like the HD2500 and HS5500 did eg: find me all the Calvin Harris tracks IF their BPM is > 130 etc

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Found a workaround for my own library to get instant results recently

I have tagged most of my used tracks with a # tag in the comments and grouping fields

Eg #rnb #dancehall #throwbacks etc

So I search # to start with, takes a while but once the result shows any thing I add after the # pops up instantly

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Search time is awful on all of the prime series. I cut my library from 120k down to 35k and it’s hardly noticeably better. Once again, I will reiterate this- none of the Prime series was truly beta tested prior to release. There are tons of inconsistencies with them. If anyone says otherwise, they don’t mix much and/or don’t DJ 6+ hour events enough.

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I am absolutely sure that it has been through a betatest, taking the amount of changes in consideration.

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From reading the comments on here I’m assuming everyone mixed within a 90 second timeframe because I’ve had no issues at all. Does it take 10-15 seconds to find a track? Yes, but that’s not unplayable. Annoying, yes, but it doesn’t make it a paperweight, as many on here are suggesting.

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The “if anyone says otherwise” chortle is never self supporting.

If a product has 30 bugs and you start beta testing and find 28 bugs then, of course, you finished the beta testing 2 bugs too early. BUT lol how would anyone know that there were 30 bugs to find? Of course, no-one would. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Much more realistically, a strict testing regime would establish an endpoint. Perhaps that endpoint would be “if our entire team of beta testers reach a stage where they discover no new, previously unidentified bugs within x weeks of the last bug discovery, then finish working on the fixes for the discovered bugs and release the update.”

One alternative is, never release an update and forever look for just one more bug, just one more, one more, one more…

Another alternative is release the next firmware, beta tested and with all the discovered bugs resolved and vow to investigate and try to resolve any new bugs that are discovered after release, in the future - sound familiar?

Or, should the beta team never progress, always stuck looking for 2 last bugs that might, or might not exist? A line has to be drawn where it’s decided that the next firmware, with its 28 fixes is released, with remember, no-one at that stage knowing that there’s still anything else to find.

There’s the suggestion of “why not test every feature?”. That’s a superb suggestion for simpler devices, like a TV remote control or a Desktop cooling fan but unrealistic on devices where the number of features multiplied by the number of modes offered multiplied by the number of different ways users can expect to use the devices can, and will vary so much.

Adding new features can mean adding new bugs.

It’s frustrating but it’s always going to be a consideration.

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Just a heads up.

Having Playlists made does not mean searching by typing will be faster.

See here https://community.enginedj.com/t/search-within-a-single-crate/12538?u=mufasa

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Denon might be able to optimise search speed further, but in the meantime… Unless you’re really committed to removing the laptop; plug your Traktor laptop into the X1850 USB1 port, map a couple of output channels for Traktor alongside your SC6000s and grab a Kontrol X1 MkII. That way you can play either system simultaneously across your four mixer channels. I do this with a couple of Kontrol D2s sometimes when in the mood. The X1850 is great mixer for this - just set your input selectors accordingly. Traktor HID might be a good fit for you, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for it; Traktor HID support for the SC6000 is likely dependent on willingness from Native Instrument and they sell their own controllers so they don’t have a good business incentive to enable it on competitor’s hardware.

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It doesn’t have to be self-supporting. It’s basically saying none of the opposition has made any good case and I can’t imagine any scenario where they can. It’s not intended to be supporting evidence, rather it’s a claim there’s no one using actual good reasons to oppose your views, no dissenting views of merit to the actual topic at hand. It’s a claim that supposed opposing views are irrational, based on false assertions, or are really just attacking tangential straw men. Saying this claim is “never self-supporting” is basically doing the same thing it’s alleging: that opposing views are skirting the subject at hand.

On a side note, the Prime line was not sufficiently beta-tested prior to release, hence the need for a large, later (and ongoing) round of beta testing and recruitment that was necessary after new owners found a crap ton of problems that ordinarily would have resulted in people just returning their new gear for a refund. I suppose that says more about people’s frustration with Pioneer DJ and that company’s unresponsiveness to customer feedback and requests than anything else. People were so fed up with Pioneer that they were willing to put up with InMusic’s (at least previously) horrendous QC issues and inadequate beta testing, and even actually give of their time and efforts freely to help InMusic in the goal of helping Prime succeed.

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I think you might of missed it.

https://community.enginedj.com/t/rgb-waveforms/11182/130?u=wyley1

There’s a lot of inmusic staff lately and people like mojax are testing also.

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See Fancy yourself as an Engine Prime or EngineOS beta tester? : You could as well join the Beta testing team instead of flaming on them :wink:

But do realize that development resources are always limited. Yes, I too feel that too many devices nowadays are released with a half-baken firmware, and Engine is no exception. Back in the days of VCR players and DN-2100F’s you had to be sure that the firmware was finished, because updating was not possible! But that said, Rekordbox and Traktor are just more mature software than Engine. Back in the days when Rekordbox just came out, Traktor would still wipe the floor with it. Today Rekordbox has matured, but Engine is still a very young software. Closing that gap takes a lot of time…

Still, I put up with Engine’s quirks, because there are a few advantages in the concept that Traktor or even Pioneer doesn’t have. Big as screens screens on (2) SC6000s with a nice browsing UI instead of staring at your laptop., and not to forget about dual layer…

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About beta testing …. Think of the idea of “It’s working 100% perfectly” and “Its not perfect” as the two pictures here.

There are some differences for you to spot, but no-ones going to tell you how many differences there are…

Off you go…. Spot away….how many will you find? When are you going to stop searching? When are you going to declare that there are no more differences to find ? Are you never ever going to declare any number and just keep searching forever, on and on, just in case there’s another difference “somewhere” ?

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It´s also like that

Bugs

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There also bugs that will take a little longer to resolve that get passed.

And there are things that shouldn’t have got a pass, like the state of the preparation list.

The question is that after updating does one feel they have a better machine?

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My cut off is stability. I can live (temporarily) with a few bug as long as they don’t impact my $$$$. Things fail at gig and NOW we have a problem.

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Thing is guys, look I agree Denon have done great in their new products and innovation. Here’s the thing I’ve just got back from doing a small private gig and took the prime 4.

I didn’t use roll all evening and then I did and the roll just got stuck and wouldn’t release I had to physically power the unit off in a live performance and turn the thing back on. It wasn’t a massive deal as this wasn’t one of those types of gigs, more of a small get together but had that happened at wedding or something, it would have been a major problem.

I’m having to now use the unit very basically now and not try anything clever with effects as who knows what might happen.

I know how beta testing works, I was developer for web analytics (Coremetrics) many years ago and no you can’t catch every bug but anything that effects the main performance isn’t good at all and customers are within their rights to share their frustrations without others saying things like “well I don’t have that issue and I don’t need that anyway” ….that really helps no one and there’s a few here on the Denon forum that jump on anyone who has a valid issue that they may not be experiencing or bothered about.

I really had no issues in the previous firmware and will look to possibly go back, I also have a prime Go which I haven’t updated yet so may just use that for now until a fix arrives.

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