EQ Settings

Hi all,

Just a few questions regarding EQ settings. I have just upgraded from a Pioneer DDJ SB3 using Serato. First I just want to say it doesn’t feel as good…im hoping this is due to the settings which I am about to ask about.

I generally don’t use crossfader for blends ill upfade with very low eqs and work from there. One thing I have found is that the EQ’s don’t seem fluid, they seem very clunky in terms of the sound it changes. With my pioneer I could get fluid sweeps across both decks to make great sounding blends without too much volume increase. I did this with ease on the pioneer!

I have seen a couple of settings which may be the issue, this is Isolate EQ and Norm EQ. Also seen the Xover settings but I have no idea what these do? Can somebody help me?

I have been so close to sending my P4 back as I feel its just not upto the same standard as Pioneer but im hoping im proven wrong. Also the LED lights seem to lag slightly, like on the Pioneer I could see what level I was at, and it was very responsive aside from only having 5 LEDS. I haven’t found this with the P4 so far, is this something anyone else has noticed?

Finally…Engine Prime…what on earth is this monstrosity…no beat nudge function when preparing tracks before export to the machine, no menu memory, cue points disappearing when exporting tracks to the Denon, slow readin of tracks which have already been analysed, terrible filter and tagging options!

I bought this kit based on a number of top people recommending it, I was also interested in beatport link, however I have now realised that you would be unable to record using those tracks so that’s out the window as I primarily record sets to upload to soundcloud or mixcloud etc.

Anyways I hope someone can help with the first questions, sorry about the rant im a bit miffed after a week with the P4!!

Scott

If you have really bought a Prime 4, your muscle memory of a previous owned model will slowly replace with the newer tech.

Not sure what you’re comparing with the cross fade versus eq fade ins. These are two very very different types of mix and will, for that reason sound very very different. Again, you may have to unlearn to learn

I have “really” bought one :joy:

I thought this tbh, muscle memory is still stuck in pioneer I guess. Regards the EQs though what I’m saying is the mixes I would perform no problem on my serato pioneer setup, I’m struggling to replicate on the P4. I never used crossfaders as mention in OP.

Thanks for the reply!

Unless you have a faulty unit, you’ll eventually overcome the natural rejection caused by comparing your previous workflow with the new one. While I do agree that EP needs some serious overhaul, I couldn’t help remembering people ranting over how things worked differently when first exposed to a MacOS based desktop or laptop, versus their previous Windows based computer. Either way, if you don’t feel absolutely happy with your new controller near the end of the 30 day return window, just return it to the store and replace it with the DDJ-1000SRT or something else that works the way you feel most confortable with. Regarding the EQ and crossover settings, I wonder if the settings you’re used to aren’t a Serato thing more than a Pioneer DDJ-SB3 thing… If that is the case, you may wait a little longer, because Serato support (as well as VirtualDJ support) is coming to the Prime 4 in the near future.

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Thanks for the input…I really want to stick it out but I do feel as though I might have a faulty unit. See my next post, recorded a video of it doing it but not sure if it’s broken or not :thinking::exploding_head:

you can change the frequency response of your eq with X-Over Setting. That allows you to have your own EQ-Response. Don´t know if you can match the feeling of a Pioneer system, but try it.

That Values are the points where the 3 Potentiometers start to act on. So if you set 20-250 Hz your bass will be very low and gets a bit to the midrange) from there Potentiometer no. 2 sets on … and than number 3 …

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Yeah I’ve been playing with that tonight but noticed an issue with leds while I was playing with it. I had a feeling the Xover setting was what I needed to play about with. As it stands I’m now sending a video to the store I bought the machine from because the leds are going up when I’m cutting the bass on a track…rather than going down. Making cueing any tracks up visually is impossible…thanks though I appreciate the help. I may hit you up for a more in depth answer later :joy::joy::man_facepalming:

Wait? What? Prime 4 vs SB3? That’s not even comparing apples to oranges, that is like, I don’t know, comparing apples to usb-sticks or something. So congrats on trading up :-D.

As for SB vs the high-end Pioneer gear, from what I remember, SB behavior is not the same as 2000NXS behavior, nor is the mixer in an SB anywhere close to similar to, say, a 900 mixer.

I’ll agree with previous replies that there is definitely a measure of “getting used” to involved. Consider driving a moped for many years and then getting on a brand new motorcycle. Trust me the way it brakes and accelerates will shock you at first. When you get used to it and would take another ride on the moped, you’ll wonder how you ever endured using that in the first place.

Clearly gear CAN be faulty, if that is the case, have it fixed. A good thing to do is take your usb stick with you to the store you bought it from (or another store nearby if you bought it only) and play around with it at the store for a while and see if it feels/operates like your unit does.

Things like levels going up when cutting bass does sound iffy indeed.

By the way, I am not sure what you mean by cueing up tracks visually. You always have your ears (the primary DJ tool) and should you want to use your eyes, I’d say the Prime 4 has industry-best display to show you whatever you like in crystal clear colors.

Again, respect and kudos on getting yourself this great piece of kit. With what is to come (wifi integration and streaming has been announced already), I am sure you will come to appreciate all the awesome features it offers.

Final word on Engine Prime. I think every user will agree that it is a work in progress. The good thing is, either with Denon’s own options for importing from other platforms (like RekordBox!) or with the use of third party tools, it is very feasible to stay close to your current workflow and not losing too much of the things you are used to.

Good luck and hope you get it all sorted out.

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Can anyone clearly explain what on earth the xover settings are on the Prime 4?

I know I’m digging up an old post here but it seemed better than starting a new one!

Thanks in advance!

@ScottyDee

EQ Type: This setting determines the type of equalization for the Channel EQ knobs. Select Isolate for EQ bands with infinite cut for full band “kills,” or select Norm for EQ bands with limited cut.

• ISO EQ High Xover: When EQ Type is set to Isolate, this setting determines the crossover frequency between the Mid and High EQ bands, from 1000 to 8000 Hz.

• ISO EQ Low Xover: When EQ Type is set to Isolate, this setting determines the crossover frequency between the Low and Mid EQ bands, from 100 to 800 Hz.

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Of course you can’t record tracks from Beatport Link - because they’re not yours to record. It’s a rental service. Strictly speaking you shouldn’t even be recording tracks you’ve purchased, and sharing them online, unless you have a license to do so.

Whilst that’s correct for the UK, what with Produb licence requirements and all that jazz, other countries have different regs over music copying; some more lenient than the uk laws, some not so much

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Yeah, some have even none :stuck_out_tongue:

Although the eq settings are named high & low and they do affect the high & low knobs to a degree, these 2 setting mostly affect the mid-range eq. Basically you can set both the start and end frequencies of the mid-range knob. This is actually a very clever way of implementing a user adjustable eq range. I personally like to have the very high frequencies increased a few db’s to bring out the finer details of a track. By adjusting the x-over point of my high eq up to about 6k or so, allows me to do this without pushing the mid range up when I increase the high eq. Kudos to Denon for this!!

Finally some sense! Thanks man, understand a bit more now. They should have EQ intensity settings though I.E. how quick you get change when adjusting! Hopefully future update. Thanks a lot @crazycraig :+1:

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Since getting the Prime 4 I never noticed the rate the EQ ‘reacts’ to movement until this last week.

I’ve found that (with all EQ knobs at 12 o’clock) a slight twist to the left cuts a lot more bass than I’d expect. Around the 11 o’clock position drops a lot of the bass.

Now I’m sure this is by design but after having the Prime 4 since July I’ve only just noticed it! I run the Prime 4 into a DJM-850 at work (the house mixer) and previously I was using SDJ and Club Kit directly so used those EQs daily. They do feel very different on EQ ISO mode. I’ve just put this down to the way both companies interpret sound.

A way around it is to have a “curve adjust” like on a standard mixers upfaders/crossfaders. The curve point where the bass is dropped out could be adjusted for a smoother mix.

It is something that doesn’t personally bother me but I have recently noticed it. It would be interesting to find out the curve dB in ISO mode. Maybe it’s a little aggressive? I’m not sure. I just make sure I give smaller adjustments when switching basslines of incoming tracks as I also never use the crossfader and blend as if it was a rotary using EQs and filters to shape the sound. It is this linear approach where I notice it. For this reason, the ISO mode probably isn’t ideal but I like the kill feature! I suppose I can’t have it both ways haha!

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Yeah a setting needs to be implemented to adjust the smoothness of the EQs. I mix exactly the same as you, crossfader central and just using upfaders and layering with EQs. It has been a weird change from serato, again, I’m guessing due to having that setting to adjust on serato and not on the prime.

I messed with the Xover settings and I’ve managed to use the isolate setting without a lot of issues. I have had to adjust a little bit though. I just cant use the norm setting as when all eqs are at 0 it just sounds like the music is coming from another room…which makes layering eqs a bit more tricky.

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Sounds like the firmware’s rotation curve on the EQ pots might not be optimal right now. Also worth attention might be the resolution of the increment registration…i.e., how many unique positions it’s got in each direction… what the pot controls are capable of in a stable and non-flickering manner and what’s currently being utilized.

There’s always latency to worry about too on digital gear, though I don’t recall that being much of an issue with the throughput (time it takes sound to go from ins to outs) or controls’ response on the X1800. The X1700 had very slight but noticeable overall throughput latency. The old Tascam X-9 had pretty severe control-response latency.

A standard EQ boosts or attenuates most intensely from a frequency area for each band (based on its Q) that intensifies with attenuation/boost and acts here like a parametric EQ but without the ability to realtime-adjust the parameters (frequency is in the menu, Q is not adjustable, etc). It adds group delay as you move gradually from 12 o’clock. A test waveform will become increasingly distorted away from knob centers in a very predictable way.

An iso is just a crossover that’s summed and you control the band volume of each range between filters with simple gain/trims. There are various types of filters (Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth, Bessel, etc) and different roll-off rates (orders or poles) that can be used. They each have advantages & disadvantages. The significant phase distortion is constant on an iso. If you run a test waveform through it, something like a square wave will look uniformly distorted regardless of the knob positions.

At least on the X1800 (not sure about Prime 4), the iso mode has a neat artificial bypass when you’re at 12 o’clock on all the tone knobs. Iso bypass traditionally is only possible with a dedicated switch or button.