BPM times in engine prime

#83

I don’t have prime players but downloaded engine to try and analyze my D&B collection and much to my surprise it seems to have worked basically perfectly. It’s odd the slower breaks and dancehall stuff is giving bad values for everyone.

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#84

It does a fair bit correctly…there is no perfect software for bpm detection.

Thats why we need a way to make easy manual correction on the fly.

For example even if i know the exact BPM of a track, there is no way for me to input the correct value to the SC5000.

SC5000 only lets one to double or half BPM.

Why is there two different Beatgrid move btw? There is one that jumps a beat and the regular one?

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#85

Hi,

In latest Rekordbox, Dynamic BPM analysis (option) is very accurate. (To analyse options : normal and dynamic)

For example, Ladies Night (Kool and…) is very well analysed, in Rekordbox, without the need to edit Beadgrid. It produce several automated BPM ANCHOR

Rekordbox, generate this, Variable BPM, (see in the exported .xml rekordbox database, with the export option BPM in xml checked)

<TRACK TrackID=“1107” Name=“Ladies Night” Artist=“Kool & The Gang” Composer="" Album=“FUNK” Grouping="" Genre=“Pop” Kind=“Fichier FLAC” Size=“29011334” TotalTime=“211” DiscNumber=“0” TrackNumber=“1” Year=“2012” AverageBpm=“111.80” DateAdded=“2018-11-03” BitRate=“0” SampleRate=“44100” Comments="" PlayCount=“3” Rating=“0” Location=“file://localhost/D:/FICHIERS-DJ-SONO/MUSIQUE/albums/FUNK/kool_and_the_gang-ladies_night.flac” Remixer="" Tonality=“Dbm” Label="" Mix=""> <TEMPO Inizio=“0.454” Bpm=“109.83” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“4”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“11.926” Bpm=“109.85” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“14.111” Bpm=“110.08” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“16.291” Bpm=“110.24” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“18.468” Bpm=“110.42” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“20.642” Bpm=“110.55” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“22.813” Bpm=“110.74” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“24.980” Bpm=“110.87” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“27.145” Bpm=“111.07” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“29.305” Bpm=“110.83” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“31.471” Bpm=“110.95” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“33.634” Bpm=“111.06” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“35.795” Bpm=“111.05” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“37.956” Bpm=“111.09” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“38.497” Bpm=“111.09” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“2”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“40.117” Bpm=“111.15” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“44.435” Bpm=“111.27” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“46.592” Bpm=“111.03” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“48.754” Bpm=“111.12” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“50.914” Bpm=“111.22” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“53.071” Bpm=“111.33” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“55.227” Bpm=“111.32” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“57.383” Bpm=“111.40” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“59.538” Bpm=“111.59” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“61.688” Bpm=“111.75” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“65.984” Bpm=“111.78” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“68.131” Bpm=“111.73” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“70.279” Bpm=“111.74” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“72.427” Bpm=“111.77” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“74.574” Bpm=“111.71” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“76.722” Bpm=“111.84” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“78.868” Bpm=“112.07” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“81.010” Bpm=“112.24” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“83.148” Bpm=“112.52” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“85.281” Bpm=“112.81” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“87.408” Bpm=“113.07” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“89.531” Bpm=“113.08” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“91.653” Bpm=“113.27” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“95.891” Bpm=“113.31” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“100.127” Bpm=“113.34” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“102.244” Bpm=“113.27” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“104.363” Bpm=“113.35” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“105.422” Bpm=“113.35” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“3”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“106.480” Bpm=“113.29” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“108.599” Bpm=“113.28” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“110.718” Bpm=“113.32” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“112.835” Bpm=“113.23” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“114.955” Bpm=“113.03” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“119.201” Bpm=“112.92” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“121.327” Bpm=“112.85” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“123.454” Bpm=“112.91” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“125.579” Bpm=“112.95” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“127.704” Bpm=“113.12” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“129.826” Bpm=“113.26” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“131.945” Bpm=“113.44” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“134.060” Bpm=“113.86” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“136.168” Bpm=“114.39” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“138.266” Bpm=“114.77” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“140.357” Bpm=“115.13” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“142.442” Bpm=“115.55” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“144.519” Bpm=“116.04” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“146.587” Bpm=“116.36” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“148.649” Bpm=“116.64” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“149.164” Bpm=“116.64” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“2”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“150.707” Bpm=“116.86” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“152.761” Bpm=“117.12” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“154.810” Bpm=“117.24” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“156.857” Bpm=“117.43” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“158.901” Bpm=“117.00” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“160.952” Bpm=“116.34” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“163.015” Bpm=“116.13” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“165.082” Bpm=“115.43” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“167.161” Bpm=“114.43” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“169.258” Bpm=“113.66” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“171.370” Bpm=“113.10” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“173.492” Bpm=“112.57” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“175.624” Bpm=“112.10” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“177.765” Bpm=“112.59” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“179.896” Bpm=“112.79” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“182.024” Bpm=“113.20” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“184.144” Bpm=“113.54” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“186.258” Bpm=“114.04” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“188.363” Bpm=“114.52” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“190.458” Bpm=“114.99” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“192.545” Bpm=“115.47” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“194.624” Bpm=“115.34” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“196.705” Bpm=“115.05” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“198.791” Bpm=“114.70” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“200.883” Bpm=“114.29” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <TEMPO Inizio=“202.983” Bpm=“113.83” Metro=“4/4” Battito=“1”/> <POSITION_MARK Name="" Type=“0” Start=“1.000” Num="-1"/> <POSITION_MARK Name="" Type=“0” Start=“112.835” Num=“0” Red=“60” Green=“235” Blue=“80”/> <POSITION_MARK Name="" Type=“0” Start=“113.895” Num=“1” Red=“60” Green=“235” Blue=“80”/> </TRACK>

And all BPM Anchor, without the need to adjust step by step…

So, it would be nice, if DENON PRIME could have the same options : a Dynamic (Variable) BPM option analysis that generate multiple BPM POI, without the need to adjust Beatgrid manually…

If so, i will buy de DENON PRIME 4. If not… i will wait to have a good Engine prime BPM analysis

Regards,

Olivier

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#86
  • Better BPM detect for hip hop, rnb, reggae, pop music

  • Dynamic BPM autoanalyses / Flexible BPM for funk, disco and tracks

  • Multi BPM tracks support e.g for Transition Tracks.

Its almost 2 years now and we are still waiting for the promised improved BPM algorithm.

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#87

Placing a couple hundred or so grid anchors to fix disco tracks is an IMMENSE pain. Multiply that by the 50+ tracks that need lots of adjustments.

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#88

What’s BPM time mean anyway? I know BPM is Beats Per Minute , but what’s BPM time??

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#89

The time between beats, in ms.

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#90

No changes seen in the Prime 4 tutorial/demo video

Same ol same

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#91

I’ll have to try the jogwheel thing and the shift button thing to multiply or divide, but last I checked, grid editing offers pretty much nothing on sc’s. IDK if I need to re-flash the firmware or what, but I can’t even move the grid by one space with the on-screen options. It’s like I can’t do anything at all.

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#92

Thank you all for your comments regarding the Engine Prime beat grid analysis. I totally agree with you and feel your pain.

I want to let you know that the dev team are aware of the following beatgrid adjustment requests and they are being worked on:

  • Improved beat grid analysis

  • ‘Elastic’ style beat grids for inconsistent tempos (old ‘live drummer’ tracks & tempo changes etc)

We appreciate your patience in this but unfortunately, it’s not a quick fix, but I can assure you that now there is a dedicated software team of 22 staff in Auckland that this process has now speeded up.

Regards J

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#93

First off thanks for the response Jay. We know you guys are feeling our frustrations with these things but while we definitely wish this could’ve started sooner (regarding getting these things corrected) it’s good to know there’s a team working on them now.

But it’s pretty important you guys know this isn’t a get out of jail free card. This understanding will only last so long, so as we have all said, please start putting out smaller, more frequent updates. You don’t have to fix everything all at once. Address the big stuff then the rest is just cake. Ya know?

Again though. Thanks for the update and I promise we are all pretty excited to see the fruits of the new team’s labors - hopefully soon! :slight_smile:

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#94

Hey @Djscottyb, no problem. I should, however, have been clearer on our dev guys, we’ve always had a dedicated software team, now it’s much bigger!

I can’t argue with your feedback and personally agree, smaller, more frequent updates would be appreciate. But please do understand, even with a bigger team the ethos is the same: get it right first time as best we can, even if this means more time.

Ultimately we’re a company of DJs that builds on what DJs want, need and request. It won’t be overnight but it will happen!

Have a great weekend and keep the feedback coming!

J

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#95

We have not all said that.

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#96

Oh dear. Apologies. Many of us.

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#97

More like some. The squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease I guess.

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#98

Bottom line is that Denon are working on both improved BPM analysis and beatgrid detection. This has been highlighted pretty much since Prime came out and many, if not all Prime users would benefit from this.

If you don’t think there’s an issue then fine, but for those that want to use Prime on it’s own to detect BPM, set beat grid then pack the files for standalone use then this can’t come soon enough.

Even by Denon’s own admission above this needs improved so I don’t get why you are questioning whether it is needed or not and those who have requested it?

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#99

I’m questioning nothing. I have no doubt the changes are needed and will be welcomed. My issues on this forum lean more towards the way some people attempt to make their points. It tends to range from passive aggressive to aggressive to downright mean, shameful and unnecessary. I try to gravitate towards the more technical reads but occasionally get caught up in the latest rant and end up shaking my head at the folks who think they know more than the people who design the gear. Feedback is certainly key to perfecting a product however, people will usually respond better if you stop short of telling them how to do their job. Just my opinion, nothing more nothing less.

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#100

Well if the people who designed the gear really knew what they were doing, Prime wouldn’t have been released in the unfinished state it was.

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#101

Agree to disagree my friend. Have a great weekend!!

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#102

You too. Have a good one :slight_smile:

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