Bpm manual entry

[Wyley1]

Music management is the most important and time consuming task. The #1 tool for that is knowing the tempo of your tracks. Parsimony dictates that on deck solutions are a must to cut down the time and frustration.

I have my core music for my genre analyzed (about 600 songs) and that was a time consuming task. I wanted to take my prime gear out for NYE but trying to get the rest of my collection primed for multi-genre and multi- generation music is not worth the time especially when I have it done in Traktor and knowing the work I had to do to get it that way.

Denon, I think, provided solutions for moving over our collections over to the prime and is decent but redundancy is missing.

[yeltsin]

For me I don’t think it is horrendous, what I do think is, and has been since day dot, is exactly what @mufasa has said - the warping/stretching, whatever we want to call it, that Serato does so well for tracks that are live or older midi clocks.

[amarillis]

I totally agree with Mufasa when he says that nothing seems to be changed in the last years… I play a music genre where the BPM is changing up and down throught the track and still in this situation I can enjoy the players for what they can give…Of course for the BPM side is almost like playing on an SL1200, you must have “EARS”, but I hope that in the future (near future!) also this issue can be solved…Otherwise I will have two SL 1200 with “performance pads” that nobody has ever seen…

[djbertie]

@amarillis

n he says that nothing seems to be changed in the last years… I play a music genre where the BPM is changing up and down throught the track and still in this situation I can enjoy the players for what they can give…Of course for the BPM side is almost like playing on an SL1200, you must have “EARS”, but I hope that in the future (near future!) also this issue can be solved…Otherwise I will have two SL 1200 wit

Is it more concerning that this thread has been up for 2 months and there’s not a single Denon rep in sight responding to any of these issues?

[amarillis]

Why you ask? This should not be a question! As you said, this is the problem…Now I ask: WHY DenonDJ is absentee?

[Canaris]

What do you suppose Denon DJ would have to say at this time, besides that they are working on the improvement of the BPM analysis and this will be part of a future Engine Prime update? I believe that they are well aware of the problem and when they will have something good to say on this matter, they will say it. All we can hope for is for them to continue to listen to the users feedback.

[Reese]

Most of the staff have regular day jobs with forum duties on the side. With NAMM underway they are less active of course.

[amarillis]

Just to show they are HERE! It makes me more confident…Just saying…Moreover I don’t think they will keep on listen us forever…I have a KORG ZERO8 mixer and some day in the far past KORG decided to shut down the support for that monster…It was the most powerful mixer on the market…No more updates. Too many issues to fix. That’s it. Same for Pioneer XDJ 1000 MK1…After some time of support they closed the door and after a little time the new MK2 was issued…I can go on like this forever… Why DenonDJ should be different? I heard that something like this has already happened with some DenonDJ stuff…When there are many issues it is not worth keep the product support running…Change your rider…A new kid in town…and so on! Just my 2 c.

[Canaris]

This brings us closer again to the most important aspect of a product release succes: hardware and software testing period before release on the market. During this period the manufacturers have to take into account all possible usage scenarios under all supported operating systems and environments. Rigourous tests requires time and resources and for a product to become a succes it is necessary to stay available on the market long enough to establish itself as reliable. It all comes down to one concept: getting the things done right, responsible and with pride, without using the customers as guinea pigs and take advantage of their needs. Denon DJ has the expertise and the potential to be great. All that is needed is the will to do it.

[jatoro]

Hi. Sorry for the delay on reply.

I have tried to reproduce all the steps I did until I got the erroneous analysis of BPM and Beatgrid, for which I was angry and urgently requested a correction and improvement of Denon’s BPM analysis algorithm in my previous answer, in addition to making sure, before try to summarize and describe my conclusions in this answer.

Reese: I have not made any video, because I trust the images and explanations I provide will be enough for you to fully understand what I mean.

Canaris: I’ve been playing “old-school” all my life, by ear, with vinyl, but that doesn’t mean I don´t like to play and keep up with the endless possibilities offered by today’s technology. A mixer with more accurate BPM analysis would not solve my problem, but I NEED to edit the BPM and the Beatgrid directly from the SC5000M device, when I encounter errors that I will now tell you, especially when doing loops, beatjumps, BPM based effects (quantized FX), etc.

Engel: Again, as I have referred to Reese and Canaris, it is impossible to make use of the features of this device if there is no perfect analysis of the BPM and Beatgrid. Now you will understand …

Well, as I said, I’ve always liked to try the different and most prominent software on the market of Djing, Traktor, Serato and, now, Denon.

Mainly Traktor, since I think that for the styles of music that I play is the one that best suits.

The question is as follows: I have all my music library organized and, above all, rated by Traktor.

What have I done when I purchased a Denon SC5000M unit a couple of months ago? Well, trying to take advantage of the utility offered by the Engine Prime tool, import the collection from Traktor and thus save me, above all, the enormous work of scoring the tracks. And this is where I have concluded and discovered the problem lies:

1. If I import a track directly into the Engine Prime collection, the analysis is generally perfect.
   

This track once it has been analyzed correctly. Even if you try to reproduce the next steps, it will ALWAYS BE RIGHTLY ANALYZED

2. On the contrary, if I go to the section and utility of importing the traktor collection, and try to import, for example, a playlist with tracks that have never been analyzed with Engine Prime (the latter is very important, I repeat, “TRACKS HAVE NEVER BEEN ANALYZED WITH ENGINE PRIME”) as “crate”, a lot of tracks are imported with BPM and incorrect beatgrid analysis. I enclose images:

• Traktor Collection:

• Engine Prime (updated Traktor Collection) before importing:

• Engine Prime Crate as Result of importing:

You can, now that you have the images with the libraries sorted by title, compare the BPM columns, you will see how there are many import errors.

Let’s look for example on the Drunken Kong - Balance track (Original Mix). It should have 125 BPM, after the first individual analysis and as traktor says, but, after importing, it has 124, which results in a failed BPM analysis and, therefore, the misfit beatgrid.

If we now try to correct the bpm of the track in the Software Engine Prime from our computer, and we change, 124 BPM to 125 BPM, everything seems to be solved and the grid perfectly adjusted and aligned.

The funny thing is that if we give it the right button and Re-Analyze, it will return to the 124 BPM incorrectly analyzed in the import. This indicates that, in some way, the information on some label will be recorded on the track, and never, I repeat NEVER AGAIN, will it be analyzed again correctly. The only way would be knowing some SQL programming and executing a statement of the type: UPDATE Track SET Track.bpmAnalyzed = [Tracktor]! [Bpm], Track.bpm = [Tracktor]! [Bpm];

I detected that this does not happen when you import from Serato.

That is all. I hope it has been usefull. I also reported it as a bug to Denon.

But I insist, before this type of issues, or, for example, with tracks that are ripped from the vinyl, of styles with complexity of analysis, and others … it is necessary and essential that the possibility of editing the BPM and the grid be implemented in the firmware of the Denon SC5000 (not only in the Engine Prime), especially and in the moments in which one is more committed than they are in live sessions in a club, to be able to correct the situation of BPM and Beatgrid as easy and fast as possible, as some members of the forum propose different combinations of buttons, edit the numbers of the BPM, TAPBPM, moving, stretching and expanding the grid …

Sorry my poor english and thanks very much. Regards.

[Engell]

Hands down for your thorough post

And as I stated in my earlier post, I can only agree that the BPM needs to be better. And I am very well aware that several things are effected by these faulty bpm´s eg. Loops, Slicer, BeatJump, Effects on mixer etc.

Therefor we should be able to edit them on the fly. (imo)

I have said this for the last 2 years and we have reached a point where most of my posts/ replyes and pbs are getting ignored, so I think that they (Denon) are kinda tired of me

But I keep hoping that one day they will get this fixed.

And for the same reason I do not hope that they will launch a bunch of new hardware at NAMM, we all saw what happened when they went from the MCX (which should be the new thing) to the Prime series… I hope that the upcoming hardware will be something that supports the already excisting Prime-series, so it wont take focus from the overall work that needs to be done.

But once again, thanks for your explenation.