Bpm manual entry

Engine DJ Hardware Media Players
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I see there is already a request (or 2 or 100) for Manual BPM entry on SC5000 and SC5000M and Prime 4. So this post isn’t a request.

I don’t see what the problem is for implementing this. I can see that all the serato compatibility took up lots of staff time for the last few months but all that did nothing for the most of the DJs who bought prime and are buying prime to get away from laptops and all the headaches that they bring, like new operating systems breaking working setups, drivers, incompatibility on OS etc

How can it take more than a day to add manual bpm input ??? How ?!

I can program in several languages and I see it this way:

BPM on the Primes will be stored at a variable - let’s call it “B”. When we load an analysed track then the player fills variable “B” in the player with whatever bpm is in the analysis that was loaded with the track. The number stored in “B” is also the variable that all the beat fx, beatgrid, loops, slicers, rolls etc work their timings from.

If our DJ ears disagree with the bpm that engine or the player guessed then we would press the BPM number (128.5) on the display (near top right of screen, near Key info display).

Pressing that bpm number on screen would bring up a dialog box with a calculator style keypad and a single line of numeric display. We then type on the touch screen the bpm we want to set the track as, like 1 2 4 . 5 and press enter/ok

The dialog box disappears and the bpm display which used to say 128.5 now says 124.5 and that number is loaded into the variable called “B” benefiting all the fx, loops, beatgrids etc.

I know that getting Auto bpm and beatgrid analysis isn’t anywhere near this easy. But manual bpm entry is surely just a few lines of code, popping up a dialogue box, allowing a valid entry, and replacing the stored bpm with the newly entered one. Ok you might wanna stop people from typing anything stupid into the bpm entry like numbers under 50 or numbers over 600 (or over 260, if we ignore the freaky speed-trance-trap-just-a-phase ultra high doubled bpm sub genres lol)

Manual bpm entry in a week or two please ? I bet you could code this in under an hour now that serato has stopped taking up your attention.

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Couldnt agree more with this. And a shame, I only can Like/ Love one time :rofl:

The upper limit should be set around 1020 bpm, as Moby has a track with around 1015 bpm :joy: (it is in GUINESS book of Records)

But yes, I agree with every thing you wrote. It should be possible!

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I really hope I am wrong with this, but I think that DenonDJ will not do it. For some reason (political maybe?), they are not interested in giving the user the option to expand/shrink or even manually entry the bpm. They always say that “we are working very hard to improve the bpm detection algorithm”, but never said a word stating why they are not working on the option to set the bpm manually or expand/shrink the beatgrid from the players. In fact, if they gave us this beatgrid-editing option, there would be no need of such a perfect bpm detection algorithm!!

I am afraid they have some kind of “contract” with the companies of the competence, and they will never do it, but as I said, I hope I am wrong with this.

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My guess is to get the algorithm as best as possible. Then EP can bulk detect the correct bpm.

I understand the need for expand/contract option, certainly on the player I would really welcome it, but it is of no use if you need to go through 1000’s of tracks that are wrongly detected in the first place.

(And no, there is no conspiracy here. We’ll leave that to the new world order.)

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I think even with a stunning bpm algorithm, they’d have to give us beatgrid edit as a lot of DJs play Manually drummed tracks

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Please, it is essential that the BPM can be edited directly from the SC5000 and SC5000M units, without relying on Engine Prime software.

I also get many errors in the beatgrid analysis, resulting in an erroneous BPM calculation, as well as an incorrect alignment.

Please, the DJs urgently need to be able to edit the beatgrid of the tracks not only moving the grid but also stretching or shrinking it to correct the BPM, I insist from the unit itself.

Also, a TAP button must be enabled on the units for manual BPM calculation as it exists in Software Engine Prime.

This should be a priority for the next firmware update.

This is a demand and we are claiming hundreds of users in the forum. We await a response soon. It is impossible playing music with Denon SC5000 on a live club with this unit and this disastrous bpm analysis, which leaves you Denon very badly in front of competition.

Thank you.

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As old fashioned or absolete as it may seem, the presence of a tap BPM calculator on any DJ equipment, no matter if it’s a digital player or a mixer, should be presumed and viewed like a fail-safe mechanism, a backup and an assistant, if you will. No matter what equipments connect to each other, the presence of the tap BPM calculator is a real help for estimating the tempo and making the right decisions.

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They should look at algoriddim djay. That simple app has beatgrids down great. It downloads spotify tracks, analyzes and never has bpm issues.

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I was (past tense) reading your post until it got to the “I insist” and “this is a demand”

I agree that some new firmware or software or both is released urgently to Prime owners but, even to an Aussie like me, phrases like insist and demand just remind me of a temper-tantrum toddler. But, aside from the way of asking, I agree with you.

Back when denon were replying to such questions in 2019, they did say they’re working on it. I believe them, but I think we’re all more than ready to see the results, in the form of a public firmware release, not just another bunch of neutral “we’re working on it” and “our team are ware of the requests” type pacifying placeholder posts.

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Bold statement. Could you make a video to show this?

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If it’s so damn hard to perform in a club environment using the SC5000, try doing that with a pair of turntables and a classic mixer, full of advanced “BPM analysis” technology.

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I play every weekend with SC5000 and SC5000M in clubs and venues. There was never a problem that could make them not possible to play. All functions are running fine. BPM is not super accurate, but it’s not a problem.

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We can agree that the BPM is faulty, and that Denon need to do something about it, but the units are not impossible to play on.

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I only ever play out on my Denon’s now, I insist on them over Pioneers.

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Great post - while the algorithm isn’t perfect, it is better through 2019 than it was at the start, which does show Denon are working on it, and listening too! They just need to improve the pace of the changes now really!

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I haven’t noticed any improvement in the bpm detection. The same tracks that I tested in 2017 are still wrongly analyzed in 2020.

Since EP/SC5000 launch they have released 2 new pieces of hardware and added extra features to Engine Prime but can’t sort out bpm detection and advanced grid option…

“We are working on it” - what does this even mean? Will be nice for folks to know what they are waiting for.

I’m not sure how performers who rely on sync are managing for starters.

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I have, but not on the extreme tracks - on my house/techno etc tracks, they are much more accurate and generally get the downbeats correct. I appreciate that there is still much work to do, but I think that people are making out like they are sat on their thumbs over it, which I don’t believe they are.

I do think that 2020 is the year they have to get it right though, 3 years+ is waaaay too long.

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I always thought it managed well with EDM generally.

It’s the hip hop, rnb, pop, reggae, Afrobeats, Reggaeton that I saw wrong results.

It’s note as noticeable now for me because of the “Bpm tag workaround” but I have a few test tracks committed to memory which I put through reanalyse with every EP update. Serato, Rekordbox, Traktor, VDJ gets those tracks right.

They are not obscure tracks by the way

  • Ladbroke Groove - AJ Tracey
  • In Da Club - 50 cent

I still think advanced gridding should be prioritized, that way folks can make bpm changes as needed. No single software is 100% correct but maybe Denon has an ace up its sleeves.

I’m eagerly waiting for the “world class Bpm detection algorithm” they promised close to a year ago.

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I don’t think that’s a fair comment - hardware and software are generally 2 different teams.

Whatever new hardware comes out, it will almost certainly also use Engine Prime so at best maybe a new button mapping or configuration file needs to be added for compatibility with the new products, hardly time consuming for the software team.

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Maybe we have to acknowledge that some songs are just more difficult to be analysed by a software algorithm that has to make assumptions and require the BPM value to be estimated by the user and then entered in the id3tag prior to analysis so that Engine Prime can simply read and use what is already written in the id3tag BPM field. In the case of working directly on the players with tricky to analyse songs, the presence of a tap button it will be a real help for everyone, because it allows the user to be in control.