Beatmatching/sync worse than Traktor?!

I’m used to Traktor before having my Prime 4. I noticed when mixing 2 tracks in Traktor fluently, mixing the same tracks on my Prime 4 (standalone) it is messed up. With Sync enabled it still does not beatmatch at all. Both tracks have the same key and almost same BPM (122 & 123). How to fix this? I can’t imagine beatmatching on the Prime 4 is much worse than on a laptop with Traktor?

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Make sure you’ve got the latest firmware and engine prime software.

Also read up on the prime syncing options. You can set many different Params for beat syncing on prime like sync to beat, or bar etc - once you’ve got those.settings the way you need them for the way you like to work , you don’t have to set them again

Thanks! I’m running the latest firmware and played around with the beatmatching options (Beat/Synx. Unfortunately without success…

I tested with Rekordbox also. (same 2 tracks). The are mixed and beatmatched withour any problems. When playing the same tracks on Engine Prime, they’re messed up again. It seems to be a analyze or beatmatch issue in Prime itself…

Any other tips and workarounds appreciated…! :slight_smile:

Try with the same track on both decks.

If that works then perhaps it’s a analysis issue.

Might have to strip the tags - the primes will jump to bpms stored in track tags if they’re there. Which then won’t be right if mixing to a internally analyses tag.

If the bpms are the same on the two tracks, remember you can slide the beat grid forward and backward on either track

The other thing is Engibe Prime (the Software) has had its new bpm algorithm now for a month or more, but the matching firmwAre in the primes hasn’t been made or at least not released yet, so the prime players might be saying a track is 123 when engine prime software is saying the track is 124 or 122.

And if you’re drum n bassing , forget it

You haven’t mentioned the beat grid. Are the tracks you’re trying to sync both correctly gridded? If they’re not, sync won’t work - it depends on the grids being correct.

N.B. it’s not possible to adjust the tempo alignment of the grid on the Prime 4. Unfortunately it can only be moved left/right, not in/out.

I actually think the BPM analysis is better than Traktor, Serato and Rekordbox. I play alot of old skool house and engine prime gets it more or less. Need to beome tweaks here and there. If your grids are off or variants in bpm values try Tempo sync instead.

So the unfortunate truth is that the analysis and auto beatmatch (sync) capabilities of Prime are sorely lacking compared to Traktor, especially, and Serato as well but not as badly. Traktor for all its faults is still the best when it comes to analyzing files. You can DJ techno/house/etc with your eyes closed with Traktor. Prime takes a much different approach, inspired much more by CDJs than software. Analysis is constantly off, tracks drift, and the sync feature is worthless (if it wasn’t analyzed correctly of course)… you really are better off managing each deck manually.

That said, like any different technology you can learn it and figure it out, but the problem is - and I’m saying this as a Prime 4/Engine user for the last year - it is still nowhere near as accurate as Traktor. I sold all my Traktor gear (including a Denon DN-X1600 and NI D2’s) to make way for the Prime 4, and unfortunately, I still somewhat regret that decision. But this is what I have now so it’s all about adapting to this new style and not giving up. Best of luck to you as well!

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Bingo. There’s a lot more satisfaction to be had

Become a driver, not a passenger

Keep going mate. I came from Traktor as well. I had the S4 mk3. Traktor is ace for getting all your remix sets bang on sync. For me though and this may sound weird but I really do think engine prime 1.5 does a better job at anylising. I don’t use sync on my prime 4, I just think it’s super cool and fun to match the bpms and mix from there. I love the pitch bend buttons as I used to mix that way years ago with the denon DNS 5000’s. I then sold them and went to pioneer cdjs and after that NI gear. With the prime 4 I truly believe it beats the lot. I play old skool house music which has a lot of tracks with bpm variations and sometimes my mixes arnt tight but it’s alot of fun. Hope that helps you. Engine prime 1.5 is also the first addition of the new algoriddim. It can only get better. Prime 4 next fw update is only days or few weeks away. It will improve and get better. Keep on mixing friend :sunglasses:

Please, don’t try to reproduce on Prime rhe way tou worked on other devices.

With modern songs, engine analysis is 98% good. Tou still can modify mistakes manually in Engine software or move grid on device itself

Yeah I never use sync either. I learned how to mix on turntables and always use pitch sliders and my ears to beatmatch. My issue is not with the Prime 4’s beatmatching capabilities, it’s with the Engine analysis combined with the Prime 4 beat grid editing. While I am mostly a techno DJ, where BPMs are almost always accurate and never drift (unless it’s oldschool techno, sequenced and recorded on analog gear with all the variations that can bring, or ripped from imperfect vinyl), I do also play a lot of oldschool hip-hop, funk and soul and those tracks almost never get analyzed correctly by Engine. Perhaps it gets the overall BPM speed right, but the tracks constantly drift and the beat markers never line up. I can change the beat grid on the Prime 4 on these tracks and it will get the first few downbeats in sync, but then the track drifts and the downbeat eventually becomes the upbeat, etc. Is there a way on the Prime 4 to set beat grid markers so that you can manually sync or stretch certain parts of the track in between those markers? In Traktor I often had to do this 20-30 times in really difficult tracks that kept drifting. PITA, but it helped a huge amount for mixing into them with other tracks.

Agreed it’s fairly good with anything recent and produced/mastered well, but that only represents about half of what I typically DJ and it’s the other half where Engine struggles and the Prime 4 does not offer much in the way of granular beat gridding (as far as I have found).

None of the prime products do this currently.

There is a feature request for it so give it a vote.

You could create some tight loops at interesting parts of the track. You can fine tune the loop in edit mode too to get them tight even if the grid is out. That’s what I do with tracks with fluctuating bpms.

I’ve really been struggling with the transition from traktor, too. Just bought the SC6000s with x1850. The hardware itself is fantastic but analysis and sync are pretty horrendous. Before the sync haters come out of the wood work, consider that for over $4000 USD I expect a basic feature to perform seamlessly compared to a far less expensive controller/software combo.

I’m really at a loss. Do I return the gear or wait for the dev team to fix? And if I wait, how long is that gonna take? Or do I cross my fingers for traktor HID integration?

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They are still in bed, but don’t worry they will be in touch.

What happens when you sync? Perhaps you could record a video and share it

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Well being a Traktor user for many years and yes i play house/tech house mainly and Traktor was good at anylizing my tracks. Since then i have switched to Denon and at the start few months back there was some issues with Prime software anylizing my tracks but only a couple which i was able to fix easy using the beatgrid function within prime software.Then came along Prime 1.5.1 and that all changed and i re anylized my complete library and wow i have to say its the best in the market at doing so and ive tried them all

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I’ll try to put together a video. In short, the BPMs are often off phase when in sync mode. This can usually be resolved with a quick platter adjust, but then the phase meter is totally off on the display.

I’ll tried readjusting the beatgrids to try to resolve, but it generally doesn’t help. This can be really frustrating when mixing a track that has a very long beatless intro because it’s hard to tell that the phase is off until the first beat lands and by then it’s too late and I already have a brief train wreck on my hands.

This is a big departure from traktor where once you hit sync, you can proceed 99% of the time without giving any further thought to beat matching/adjustments. If for some reason traktor’s phase is off then u have the lined meters on the display to let you know how much to adjust when you relaunch the track.

This may be all the nickdang has to do too