Beat Grid Issues

So many tracks that I analyze start the beat grid 1 beat into the song instead of at the beginning. I tried manually setting cue points before hand but when I play on my SC5000’s the song stutters at the beginning causing it to be out of sync when I start from those cue’s. Adjusting the beat grid doesn’t work as once I get to the beginning like it should be it just resets back to where it is in the pictures.

Examples below:

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I have exactly this same problem! The software needs to be improved. Everyone knows it. I’ve given up even trying to adjust all the tracks and am hoping they fix this so I can just reanalyse everything! I feel your pain :cry:

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Hello @prgmitchell and thank you for posting. We understand and accept your feedback, we are listening! Our Dev Team is working round the clock to make sure that our Engine PRIME software is where it needs to be. Please continue to provide any feedback, but also take a look at our Feature Requests, for opportunities to vote on features you’d like to see in our hardware and software!

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The specific various features we would like to see will be welcomed only after the fundamental features of the software work flawlessly with the entire range of your products. While it’s a good thing to vote for a specific feature, it is better to have the basics (good database management, good BPM analysis or at least the ability to import the BPM values already stored in the files ID3TAG, precise cue points that can be set to the millisecond) working flawlessly. As long as the software cant be used effectively with the whole range of products you’ll have many customers unhappy, stuck with expensive pieces of audio hardware that can’t be used reliably.

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Lovely sentiments to a certain degree but with a slight issue. Everyone will have their own idea or desire or need for what “the basics” are.

It’s Like those DJs who only have a couple of thousand tracks, won’t care all that much about database management or sorting or searching - as a couple of thousand tracks is easy to work with even with little or no management

Likewise, some DJs won’t use beatgrid, some won’t use scratching features, some won’t use the waveform, some won’t use auto features, some won’t use on-deck analysis, some won’t use quantise etc and so on.

I’m sure by now that Denon have counted enough votes In here to know what to put in the next firmware update and probably the 3 updates after that too

Well, the basics on our case is the database management features that counts, because Engine Prime main purpose is to organise and maintain a music library database, with information contained within the music files ID3TAG. Other features will be specific to a dedicated DJ software. It is hard to please everyone, but here, Denon DJ should step up and decide what they want for the Engine Prime software as main features, and, later, gradually develop the features associated with music manipulation.

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I hear ya. Although again, you’re saying that Denon should put “your choice” as the top priority.

Yes, your top priority will be the same as some others, as yes, you could say that you’ve interviewed 99 DJs in your town/club/association/forum and they all agree with you and all that.

Yours isn’t a bad suggestion, or the lowest priority suggestion - compared to others who want the waveforms prettier or a whole new sampler added

Also, reading some of the comments from the forum, some just want frequent updates seemingly regardless of what’s in them. So if denon think it’s going to take a year to decode detail-lacking requests of “make Engine work better” but they think they can add 20 tiny features easily, they might choose a route which would give them less headaches.

Never easy and never any right or wrong answers.

It is not about my choice. It is about Denon DJ having a clear plan for Engine Prime software and what they want for it to be in the first place. It needs a strategy for a good development, and according to Denon DJ, the software is intended to be at its core a database management application. So, the main priority is to ensure it can handle well the music database creation, organisation and export to different devices. It all starts with flawless database management, because everyone needs it to be able to plan the music sets. It’s the same case as having a mixer with a lot of bells and whistles, but not being able to handle the basic mixing functions well. It’s a good thing that Denon DJ listen to its customers proposals for different features, but many of them are optional. The features that are usable by everyone and mandatory are a priority here, because they allow the software and hardware to be used together.

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This is by far Denon biggest problem. This software needs to be retouched and enhanced. I love the prime 4 I have however almost every track I load on to the deck the beat grid seems to be out of wack. Its annoying do I really have to hit edit grid and then even manually adjust it with the jog wheels or even move it back or forward hoping it resolves on its own ? Denon Please fix this asap. This is Engine Biggest problem coming from someone who loves the prime 4 and owns one however sees this Denon can be in club settings if this would be resolved.

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Thanks for your feedback @isaac16, we are continuously working on improving and enhancing our Engine PRIME music management software, as well as our PRIME Series products. Sections of our forum like the Bug Reports and Feature Requests sections are great places to provide specific feedback about the current standing of our gear, and where you’d like to see it go! Take at look at these sections, and please contribute when you can, your feedback is important!

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Is it possible to update EP so we never need to adjust the beat grid? For example, I use VDJ and I’ve NEVER needed to change a beat grid, I don’t even think there’s an option to adjust the beat grid in that program.

I honestly only ask this because due to my 5000’s analyzing a huge portion of my songs with incorrect bpms, I could now utilize sync as a workaround. However, manually adjusting 50k songs beat grids is just insane to do.

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Hey there @djbertie, thanks for posting! The ability to deactivate the beat grid analysis function when importing tracks is not possible, but this is another opportunity for me to offer up our Feature Request (Engine PRIME) section to share and get this type of feedback out to the masses. Please feel free to create a new topic if one similar or exactly like yours doesn’t already exist.

I am a DJ with only a couple thousand tracks and I actually care a lot about database management, I mean that’s kind of paramount to how the whole setup works. It’s been a nightmare using EP since I bought my SC5000s, while it looks great on the surface under its hood it’s just embarrassing. Cue points don’t import/save or export, bpm values and beatgrids are frequently off (which considering most of my music is straight 4/4 it’s kinda sad). Worst part is you can’t even fix them manually because EP just keeps undoing everything you do. Something about it being “non-destructive” to your other softwares or whatever if I remember correctly… What’s the point of implementing features to fix grids, tap bpms and add/delete cues if nothing we do saves to the track after we unload it? Not that I need beatgrids to DJ but having incorrect BPM values can totally mess up a set. You need that to work else you can’t even properly match tempo, idc how good of a DJ you are. Beat matching when the software thinks your 128 house track is 197 is just dumb… I’d rather go back to using straight vinyl. Lastly, and probably worst of all, adding & deleting tracks on my USB. Which is so bad, it usually ends with me deleting and repacking my whole library every time I want to switch out just a few tracks. The hardware is amazing, but it needs the software package to back it up. And right now, EP is not where it needs to be. I’m so close to saying screw it and move everything back to rekordbox but that’ll bring different problems into the mix. I get it, it’s tough to develop all this crazy tech and Denon’s been doing great at listening to feedback and getting things fixed but for how expensive these players are, stuff should work a little better.

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Update by update - it does.

Not everyone wants, or needs, the same features on these players.

I’m not doubting your experience here, but I’ve set all my beat grids manually in EP (not the greatest process) and I’ve never lost them in either the SCs or in EP EXCEPT when I’ve lost my head a re-analysed, but that’s the same in any DJ software. How is all your file data disappearing? What’s happening to the beat grids?

In many cases they’ll just be off by a hair so when previewing transitions in EP without the SCs it sounds bad obviously so I’ll go in and nudge it a bit to be right on. Same with bpm being like .2 or .5 off (though this might actually be MiK or serato detecting the wrong bpm since I’m importing from there) but when I try to fix these issues, if I unload the track then reload it in EP, all those changes will disappear, every time. Like as if I need to be hitting a “save changes” button or something. Cue points are the same. But I have a feeling all of this is related to the fact that I’m grabbing my collection from serato so any change I want done has to be done there. I’m gonna try erasing my EP library today and just pulling the tracks from itunes after using MiK to get the key and ditching serato altogether. I was only using it to import the MiK cues but if I can’t overwrite them then it’s pointless so I’d rather start clean. As long as whatever I do can sync to my USB (which is another issue altogether).

Also S_Anderson, you’re right it is getting better with each update. I won’t deny Denon is working very hard to make it the best and most competitive, I just imagined it’d be a little further along by this point. EP has been out for a couple years now and it’s still just barely usable. And that might even be generous of me to say.

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The serato import is useful if you use serato at some gigs.

Does MIK analyse for BPM? If it doesn’t I predict you will realise soon the limitations of EP native bpm algorithm.

If you need serato for bpm purposes and you don’t need to maintain a library in serato, why don’t you delete the serato tracks that you imported to EP after (in serato dj of course) ?

  1. MIK
  2. Serato to get BPM
  3. Sync to EP
  4. Head back to serato
  5. Select all tracks, delete

Didn’t think of trying that. Could be why EP wasn’t allowing me to correct bpms, beatgrids or cues. I’ll try it out. Also I need to have analyze turned off if I’m bringing key info over from serato/MIK correct?

EDIT: Mufasa you have once again hit genius lvl 9000. Deleting tracks from Serato solved most of my issues with EP, almost all my adjustments, grid fixes and cues are saving now. Now it’s just a matter of the odd track needing to be reanalyzed (probably 1 in 10 or 15) cause it grabbed the wrong waveform/BPM. Not sure why but its sucky we can’t retap bpm on the fly on the 5000s. Having to bring the drive back to EP on the computer to fix bpm and reanalyze is a B.

Yah for reals! My Dj career is on hold for now after I purchased this thing! That bpm analysis is garbage! I did not spend over $1,500 on this thing to test it for you guys this product should have been Flawless before it was even released especially the beat grid analysis!

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On hold? Really? What has the DJ world come to.

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