Autogain during analysis for playback on Prime hardware

  • What is the feature or ability you would like to have? Autogain to keep the level of tracks around the same when playing on the decks.

  • How will this feature help you and others? Too lazy to set levels each time I load a track. I dont mind the occasional 1 in 10 times where the autogain algorithm isn’t exactly spot on

  • Is this feature available in an existing product? If so, what product? Not sure if its available on the direct alternative ie Rekordbox Export mode. Denon can be a Pioneer (pun intended). Laptop/Software eg Serato, Traktor have it.

  • Does a workaround currently exist?

  1. Manually adjust gain/trim knobs
  2. Use Platinum notes or other alternatives, I personally dont like using a destructive processing on my files. I believe they are non reversible audio processing ,if it turns out to be rubbish.
  • How often would you use this feature? 24-7, 365

  • Is there any additional information you’d like to add? As a quick mixing bar dj I will appreciate this and it will bring my performance closer to what I’m accustomed to having used Serato over the last 10 years.

  1. As an option during analysis

  2. The purist can continue keeping it real by doing it the old school way @Reticuli.

  3. Options of various autogain level, serato has 88 to 95 db

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You do realize that DJ software is AUTO-ADJUSTING the on-screen gain/trims, right? Are you asking to have the player side do this independent of some virtual (soft takeover-like) on-screen gain/trim that doesn’t even exist?

If you have autogain in any form on the Prime 4, you’re going to end up with the volume changing while the track is playing, even though you’re not doing anything, because analysis is not instantaneous.

Heck, right now they’re compression-limiting some of our music playback on Prime. Have you hearted the request for just a blanket -6dB processing pad on the player side of Prime? That doesn’t even require analysis to be done, would be for every track, and is mathematically simple.

I dunno what that is about but i will take it as good request :grimacing:

where is the link?

i will heart it if it applies to me and ignore it if it doesn’t, but what i won’t do is to argue/type paragraphs against it.

I don’t know the science behind it, all i know is that it’s one less thing to worry about if auto-gain is a feature.

The Primes are computers, who knows what they can and can’t do.

eg recently been made aware that they can do direct streaming of tidal, soundcloud on the hardware.

People keep asking for autogain on both Prime 4 and on the SC Prime players, but on DJing software autogain occurs on the on-screen mixer and is reflected in changes there. There is no on-screen mixer on either the P4 or SCs. Do you want them to add one? Where?

Load a track on the Prime 4 that is not already analyzed. After it does RMS/loudness analysis from the (let’s presume) FFT stuff it’s already doing, autogain would cause it to change the volume suddenly later. Test a few unanalyzed tracks to see this time it takes.

So you’ll have to make the determination of whether hidden gain/trim adjustments and a delay prior to a drastic and sudden volume shift are acceptable tradeoffs to just being “too lazy”.

This isn’t even getting into the issues with how you judge perceived loudness in the first place to do autogain, which is a whole can of worms. It’s not normalization to just some peak. Do you make it one fixed RMS target? Do you make this target adjustable in settings and with varying equal-loudness based on frequencies?

Oh, and here is the link. Feel free to comment on it if you can think of something about it I haven’t… pro or con. There’s a link on it also to the older poll with additional info.

https://denondjforum.com/t/impliment-6db-attenuation-processing-pad-to-prevent-limiting-and-reduce-sound-distortion/

I really dislike autogain in just about all software. So if this feature is implemented (if at all possible, considering the comments so far), PLEASE make it optional.

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I like that

+1

Reticuli is right about on the fly autogain on the hardware.

This used to happen in traktor. Now autogain won’t kick in when on the fly analysis is happening. Only when you reload the track it will kick in.

If this does get implemented the same approach should be used.

It would be nice if this can be worked out on Engine Prime.

Autogain is a usefull feature though. It is good for when you are continuous mode playing dinner music and such or zoning out

I’d use it, save me a step in the current workflow (I run all my tracks through Platinum Notes and it is reasonably accurate in matching the levels).

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Ditto for me the ability to sort out levels whilst preparing a set on engine prime would be a big plus for me, as mufasa says when you’re playing a huge number of tracks it can become a bit tiresome constantly trimming levels.

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For me that’s DJ-ing. Tuning your tracks and collection into the utmost’s form possible.

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Don’t forget to :heart: the first post

Auto gain would be a great time saver for on the fly mash ups! I definitely back making it optional though, if I’m going deep having an extra level of tweaking is really useful

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Posting duplicate requests only divides likes

If Engine Prime and the SC5000M were the same thing, then why have 2 different feature request forums?

Engine Prime could analyze the volume and give us an Auto Gain + or -, then the SC5000M player would play the track back at the same level.

That’s Because they’re not the same thing, they’re two things

Engine Prime is the software for windows or Mac

Changes to how the 5000m works or what things it can do would be in its firmware

If they are different, then it’s not a duplicate request.

The gain structure being used on software and their metering is both so wanky that even the ones doing sophisticated RMS-based autogain like Mixxx aren’t that effective. Autogain doesn’t work as well as using your ears and requires the track either be NOT PLAYABLE UNTIL ANALYSIS ENDS or you have a sudden change in volume when it does. Neither is good. And again… this is a stupid automation feature on DJ software that people should turn off on Serato, Deckadance, VDJ, Traktor, etc. It’s also a feature of the software’s MIXER SECTION, not even the player section!

Prime playback DOES need a -6dB pad because RIGHT NOW there is still a limiter being triggered by speed changing, scratching, and Elastique on tracks that are mastered with peaks near 0dBFS clip. That’s not an analysis thing, though, and would be for every track upon load… halving of all the sample levels immediately regardless of the track’s top peak or RMS.

Thanks for your opinion. If/When Denon implements it, please feel free to disable it.

So how come autogain works when using the Rane SL1, SL2, SL3, SL4 and other devices (mixers and controllers) where the audio mixing is done outside the software.

Okay

Here’s a thing! It looks like the metering on the Prime Go only shows the main outputs, …i’ve seen no mention of the meters following the channel you’ve selected to monitor. If this is correct, then this makes autogain analysis an essential feature. As you won’t be able to accurately adjust your gain on the Go before playing a track.

It doesn’t work that well. It’s your imagination.

And please name me a software where the autogain is done ON THE PLAYER END OF THE SOFTWARE.