16kHz LPF?

Engine DJ Hardware Media Players
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Wont you please be kind and stop those personal attacks on people and their opinions?

It is perfectly fair that you are super happy with everything Denon says and does, but other people also have the right to express their opinions, without being told they are wrong, dumb, geeks or whatever immediately, to draw the focus away from what is really the matter . Because then people are not heard or seen.

But you don’t see anyone but you in here, sitting and calling people for things. I dont get it.

Let Denon be the judge of what’s important, but let people come up with their opinions. Then Denon will definitely sort in the input they get.

So please respect the opinions of other people. Even if they don’t match yours.

In fact, there are cases where 0.000001% can mean all or nothing. And if it matters to some - so be it.

And now you might be sitting there wanting to comment on something like I’m running a propaganda trip against Denon - I don’t.

I’m also happy for my players, I just think there are things that should be fixed a long time ago. And if you do not pay attention to these things, then it may take even longer before something happens. Not that mine is more important than the wishes of others, but then they must also open their mouths.

Have a great day.

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It’s odd. You’re making a personal attack on him, incorrectly, about him making a personal attack

It’s not a personal attack if it wasn’t personal. No name was mentioned inside his comments so it wasn’t personal or aimed at a personal individual. Your comments however were replying to him specifically and therefore personally, citing him and him alone. You’re more guilty of a personal attack, when he wasn’t. His only offence was having a different opinion than yours.

It seems quite balanced and maybe that is the good thing that some people here stick together on attacking denon or trying to make opinion seem like fact, then other people stick together in providing an equal strength correction of such posts.

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I should have guessed who would be the next one to comment.

Yes I direct my comment directly to him as he very often makes name calling immediately if someone disagrees with him or has a different opinion. And there is no different in this thread. It’s low!

So no, I’m not commenting on him being of any other opinion, I’m commenting on his need to call other names!

I think you should read what I am actually writing: "It’s perfectly fair that you are super happy with everything Denon says and does, but other people also have the right to express their opinions, without being told they are wrong, dumb, geeks or whatever immediately, to draw the focus away from what is really the matter "

So let’s stay focused on what the thread is about.

Have a nice day.

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Yes, I finally belong to a group!!:metal:t2::sunglasses:

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I got called a geek once just for wanting to set gain structure properly!

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The measured non-linear harmonic and intermodulation distortion produced by the current playback processing tends to be less noticeable on music that sounds nicely spread out and with a good sense of space and dynamics. With dynamic minimal techno, world music, or old funk it’s not as objectionable as, say, with tech trance, shoegazer, industrial, or commercial EDM where it’s pretty noticeable back-to-back with Pioneer gear.

Rather than make this super complicated with some kind of flow chart…

If you 1) play exclusively more dynamic, sparse music, 2) through an analog mixer, 3) and always keep keylock on without intentionally moving back to zero pitch during the track, I think there is a low likelihood you would be dissatisfied by the Prime player sound even as it currently is prior to assumed future firmware improvements.

If you 1) play more dynamically-compressed, dense music or 2) through a hyper-revealing top digital mixer or 3) at least occasionally turn keylock off or often return to zero pitch with it on, then there’s a chance Prime’s sound would be a letdown… especially if you have Pioneer to compare it to.

If you’re in the latter camp, I’d recommend waiting to jump on Prime until updates resolve the sound issues.

If you’re somewhere in between those two camps, it’s hard to say how you’ll feel about it. In that case, you might want to extensively demo first.

Though it would be a smart benchmark to use and goal for InMusic, I don’t think bit-perfect is even necessarily what Prime has to be able to achieve at zero pitch, as VDJ, Deckadance, and Traktor seem to have no issues with decent base audio processing and good key correction and none of them are ever bit-perfect.

Pioneer’s trouble-free & rapid link (with memory of where you were), their consistent functioning (history and next track always work), and their minimalist audio processing are all laudable and unmatched anywhere in the industry right now. And, well, Pioneer also haven’t been dropping prices on their flagships and undermining early adopters with quite-as-grossly-cannibalizing products like InMusic has, either, which might damage Prime’s long-term cred in that regard, too. To be unbiased I need to give Pioneer props on all this when it’s due.

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Thanks for the detailed reply; I appreciate it. The more I think about it, the more I’m quite tempted to stick with my SC2900’s until they die completely and treat myself to the FF6.2

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Hi @djgorey, as stated above, this issue has been resolved with the last update. Great thing Denon listened to the users. The players are not bit-perfect, but considering what they can do on the time stretching front, they’re good enough for me :slight_smile: They sound warm and transparent. Since you mentioned it, I do use them with the FF6.2 :wink:

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As I said, that’s not quite correct. My point was that the other sound problems are worse than the roll off and particularly even more so now that the roll off has been reduced, so if people have a problem with the sound it’s unlikely the roll-off is most of the alteration they’re hearing. That doesn’t mean there isn’t roll off, just that the nonlinear harmonics and IMD is substantially more coloring than the slight roll off remaining. And as I said in the post someone flagged, VDJ, Traktor, and Deckadance aren’t bit perfect, either, but their sound, unfortunately, currently puts Prime to shame.

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Well, that’s obviously an option. You do have ethernet track offload available with them which you don’t still on Prime. The old Denon link was even worse than Prime’s, though, and many other things Prime improves on or adds. SC2900 has, what, 1% pitch increments on 100% range? That’s half Pioneer’s already bad res on Wide. I only messed with the SC3900 a little and own the 5500s, but don’t believe I’ve ever touched the SC2900. I assume it has some weird stuff with the jogs going on as the 5500, SC5000, and SC5000M exhibit.

What kind of mixer you using right now? I’m a big fan of top digital stuff and the only analog mixers I still own (that aren’t throw away cheapos) are full DCA and VCA designs. I think with the SC2900 you’re still going to get better sound from a digital mixer with them. When Prime’s sound gets improved, high-end analog isn’t going to benefit as much as revealing high-end digital will with them… including the somewhat dry, constrained-sounding X1800 (that’s still lagging the old X1700 processing) that I hope also gets a sound-related firmware update.

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I’ve got an Ecler Nuo4.0 at the moment so the Formula Sound would be a decent upgrade. I had an FSM-600 previously which I loved.

It’s going into an Ohm TRS PA.

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Same here. If my Nikes squeak when I walk but only bats and dogs can hear it, then people are gonna look at me like I’m saying the world is flat if I pull other more important conversations around to “hey! Don’t forget about my shoes” which is what seems like is happening here.

Denon improved the high end roll, 99% of everyone said thanks and that they could hear it’s better than before and people don’t wave sound analyse reports at me when they’re dancing to my tunes so that’s as good as it needs.

I don’t feel like I should stick my hand up in every post and tell denon to make great sounding audio sound even greater by postponing their work on beatgrid improvements, postponing bpm detection improvements, postponing Engine Prime improvement, postponing on-screen player editing of stars and loop names. If I did, I’d probably be shot at!

About the other point. I like the community flagging but how many in the community have to flag something to make it temporary hide? At the moment it looks like it’s not enough. So denon should just raise the number of different users who have to separately flag the same post to make it disappear. If it needs 10 people of the community at the moment to flag a post for it to hide, then that’s 10 people who feel the post was bad. You shouldn’t silence 10 people. But if then 11 people say that a post shouldn’t have been hidden then maybe the best action is to raise the flag count from 10 to 20 people flagging something to hide it.

But backing onto the topic? Denon you’ve made the audio sound great now, it might be possible to get it 0.00??? % better BUT don’t worry about that for a second by postponing the important stuff. We want beatgrids and better Bpms, not a flat earth to keep the Spectrum analysers happy

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It seems to be a kind of a toss up between sound quality vs updating features.

It seems like more people want better efficiency from their gear first though.

But here’s something to consider also. If you are playing a gig with another dj say with pioneer gear and you are playing with denon gear, would you want you sound quality to be at least on par with each other?

It also seems very easy to false flag posts here.

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Great point, not relevant to the little gigs I do, but in a Function One, if you ever want to “change the rider” it has to be AT LEAST as good as Pioneers.

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Well, as we already tested with my friend on Adamson and AD systems stage audio, there is already a difference in sound that is coming from both setups with a big benefit for Denon. Same settings on both mixers, same track, sounds way better on Prime setup.

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Which basically takes this to a perfect conclusion. Let your ears and your dancers or listeners ears be the judge. Leave the machines to vend chilled soda and 3musketters bars, not to spectrum analyse all the fun and professionalism out of the craft

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That’s exactly what we want to hear!!

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I’ve also put it to the test also and the results are that people on the floor don’t care about sound quality unless it really sounds like garbage.

I’ve witnessed djs with more than a decent sound system playing with low quality mp3s and at the end of the night hear from poeple how the dj played good tunes.

Pesonally for me I want the best quality sound so I can sit back listen, enjoy and say I’ve arrived. And if there is anything to improve than it should be improved.

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I think Ecler scored a slam dunk on the point-oh Nuos, other than their lack of resonance filters and the difficulty in servicing them (layers and layers of stuff to get though for even simple repairs). So you’ve got the Ecler and the SC2900s. If you’re one to use keylock a lot and go crazy with the pitch slider, you might want to consider the SC5000M. You’d still have the old Denon touch with its Ethernet track offload and superior keylock off capability, but you’d add moving platter, superior key changing capabilities, pads, more pitch ranges and better res, etc, on Prime. We’re getting Wi-Fi, too. If you’re not one to turn keylock off frequently or return to zero, especially if you want to change key plus or minus at-will, you might not notice much sonically wrong with Prime through the analog Ecler, anyway.

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Thanks for all the input everybody, I appreciate your time.

I agree that most guests most of the time don’t care about sound quality on the dance-floor, at least consciously. I do believe that a decent sound quality improves the overall quality of the presentation, but, a bit like mixing, song choice is the single most important thing at any gig. Everything else after that just adds to the feel. There are systems out there that sound ok, but you notice how loud they are and then there’s systems where you don’t notice, they just are. The other thing is, my guests are only going to be listening to my system for about 3 hrs in the whole of their lives; I’m going to be listening to it week in, week out so I want it to sound as good as possible, considering all the other things I want it to do.

It’s clear that the sound quality of the SC5000/M’s is good enough - there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with it or there would be lots of people shouting about it, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be improved if it can be. I can also see why people want to Denon to do something about it, but as we all know, you can’t please all of the people, all of the time and different people will have different priorities. Just because someone places a higher importance on sound quality than you do, doesn’t mean that they’re geeks or anal (as has been suggested more than once in this thread), it just means that they have a different set of priorities to you. I absolutely couldn’t care less about editing loop names or stars, but I appreciate that to some people this is a priority and they care less about the sound quality.

That Denon IS listening and acting on the feedback it receives makes me confident to invest in the units (just need some cash now!)

Oh and what’s with using geek as an insult anyway?! Geeks make the world a better place - whether it’s medicine or iPads or cars or whatever. I would bet my house that the people that designed, coded and developed the SC5000 were geeks.

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