Volume of Tracks when analyzing


#1

Hello, is it possible to set all the anlyzed tracks in the same Volume? If not, i think it makes tottaly sens to feature this in the new Update of the engine prime software. ehat do you think?


#2

You mean “normalize”? That’s a bad idea, friend. Use your ears.


#3

I prepare all my tracks beforehand with Sound Forge and the likes. Trimming start and end space etc. Wouldn’t want it in Engine or SC player.

Let’s keep Engine Prime, for now, for media management only. At least until that’s perfectly implemented.

Next step could be playing from software to players.

After that the mentioned processing options perhaps.


#4

That’s what Platinum Notes is for mate.


#5

It’s impossible to “normalize” music so that every song has exactly the same apparent average volume. It’s a myth. Don’t bother with it. There are attempts to get sort of kinda close using RMS-based techniques, but most of this stuff just normalizes up to 0dBFS peaks. Anything past -3dBFS is actually looking for trouble with intersample errors, anyway, and you should be using your ears and the mixer to set the apparent loudness of the tracks on-the-fly, not processing and lossily resaving your tracks stored on the drive. Hypothetically you can get away with just trimming lossless files and resaving them if there’s a bunch of deadspace on the ends, but that’s about it.


#6

I dont know why it should be bad to not use ears… in every Dj software you have normalize Traktor Serato Virtual Dj and so on. Specially by using mp3 there can be a big difference in volumes. I think if it’s part of the menu I can log it in or out so you decide yourself to use it or not use it.


#7

Hey, I’ll understand you’re opinion. But I don’t want to buy a professional software about 300€ to match my songs in the same volume. I think it should be possible to handle it in engine… and put it on and off should be a option for every user.


#8

It’s just an example. There surely is cheaper software and ditto plugins.


#9

It’ll be the Gain knob and having to do some DJ things unfortunately.

Getting a piece of DJ software to analyse a track and have it make the volume “right” just won’t work well.

Most tracks have sections of different volume levels, like the intro, the chorus, the instrumental break, the raunchy guitar solo, the outro etc.

What part of the track should it listen too?

Whatever part it listens to and takes as “right” could then make the other parts of the track too loud or too quiet.

There’ll be times too when you want to mix attack in using its intro (one volume) but other times when you want to mix attack in at its instrumental break, or bridge, or fill in, and so on. All of which will be different levels too.


#10

Right, you’re the DJ. Why would you want to actually use your ears…? :roll_eyes:

Loudness is based less on peaks and more on dynamics and song density/complexity. Those DJ softwares don’t (and can’t) work perfectly in how they normalize and autogain even if they are doing it based on a sample of the track and RMS. The benefit/utility of that option on them is basically only for controllers that lack gain/trim knobs. You certainly don’t want to be resaving and permanently degrading all your lossy MP3 files just because of laziness. Use a mixer with gain/trim knobs and don’t expect the player to do this for you. There’s your solution.


#11

Why do people shut other folks down when they make feature request?

If you have no use for the feature been requested, feel free to indicate that by asking that it should be an option and not a default thing.

We all don’t use the same gear the same way.

The “use your ears” comment is not helpful.

€0.02


#12

You are referring to autogain. It would be pretty cool to have autogain on hardware.


#13

One of the Rane mixers had Autogain.

They didn’t make that mistake again.

If people don’t want to use their ears, or don’t trust their ears, which ISNT a lack of skills, but more a lack of confidence, then they can use their eyes as a backup as the hardware has good LED meters. If ears and eyes both say that the level is a bit high or bit low then nudge the gain control until things seem right.


#14

The imperfect autogain function is more an option of the mixer section of most of these softwares, anyway, and not the player section.

If you’re going to try and use your eyes at least as much or, heaven forbid, more than your ears, though, just make sure with these dBVu meters you’re trying to get the middle of that blanking space between the bottom trough and top peaks when the song is in full swing around that meter zero. That’s really what that scale on the side is for: average volume or loudness for “program” content, not where your peaks should be. The peaks will vary with the dynamics of the track when they are consently “loud” from song to song. The difference between that meter zero when you do this and the peaks bouncing above, assuming the response of the meter is designed appropriately, you’ve got pretty good symmetry lined up there, and there are enough LEDs (cough, cough), is a rough estimate of the program content’s crest factor. Don’t fear differing peaks. Some tracks aren’t going to be very dynamic and will be so dense they’ll be barely over the zero to sound as loud as something you gotta turn up much higher.


#15

Hello, yes I think so too… Just as an option. What I told Serato Traktor and others doing also. And it have nothing to do with a missing gain knob. I think it’s also question of genres you play. I don’t need a 100% normalization I will be happy if the songs that bear double so loud are close to the silent ones. I play hip hop and many other stuff out of different decades a wild mix of different production times and this will be very helpfully to make a good and fast mix.


#16

I was just going to say with quick mixing autogain is a nice feature.

I use it all the time in Serato.

I think there is an assumption that everyone plays 12" inches 8 mins long records with enough time to make long blends whilst babying the tracks etc. There is nothing wrong with that.

In one minute I can play 3 or 4 tracks, one hook, one verse, one hook, …that may not seem like djing to the purist but the club is jumping…That’s quick mixing hip hop style peak hour.


#17

I understand all the pros and cons to this feature, but I still think your music database always needs to be prepared. Each and every song, cut, sample etc.

Normalization? Okay, I could get that. Why not. Let Engine scan the track for loudest peak and lift that to digital max.

Simple auto gain? Be my guest, but for me: No way! Auto gain, for me, only needs to come together with a very good multi-band processing. Not inside the SC or X with some simple limiter implementation. It would sound BAD.

The mentioned implementations in Traktor and Serato are also sub-par. I used it only for emergencies when someone handed me a track to play.

Now, I will not make this a loudness war, because that’s where we all were trained to listen to for “since way back when”. But if you prep your music reasonably well and keep all levels around the 0dB on the mixer, then the front of house engineer certainly will smile back at you!!

Back on topic: Yes good feature request, but not right now. Media management first and after that anything else.

My 2cents, obviously. :wink: