While I agree that this could be a Marketing strategy for manufacturer - which would be welcome - I don’t expect this here. Btw. I don’t recall if this had been done in the DJ area by the Competition before. What might be obvious for other area must not apply to this. I think it all depends on the current demand of the units in general. We will see - could be interesting…
I will be keen to see how tight the cue is. I believe the older players with motorised platters have an issue where the cue slips ie if you cue your track with the cue marker on the platter after a few back and forth ( when scratching ) it doesn’t line up again. I understand the Rane 12s don’t have this issue.
With regards to trade ins a good place to start will be with dealers. But be prepared to pay full MRSP for the new one and also your old one being undervalued.
You may be better off selling on eBay hereby having the advantage of negotiating a better deal with dealers.
I was going to trade in my 62 for the 72, dealer offered me 400 for the 62. I placed it on eBay and sold for 800. Went back to dealer and bought the 72 at good price than advertised.
So anyone who is planning to sell or swap has options.
The SC5000M reportedly has the same 3600 point motor as the RANE 12, so hopes are good.
I definitely do not want a 2ch battle mixer to go with these.
Not a fan of the stems production console version idea, as I think that’s getting strictly into laptop producer territory.
Not a fan of budget versions of any of this stuff. Too many products. QC potentially becoming even worse, too. IMO fewer products is better with more focus/effort on making them great.
On further thought, the M version would work for me as practice decks like the 5500s have, but working out with Denon Prime live, I’d probably prefer the touch platter version… even better when they make the jog bend each way adjustable I’ve used the 5500s live before, and it was very very hectic. Granted the venue’s mixers were all fouled up and there were other problems there, so maybe I shouldn’t be quite so hard on 7", but that was probably the worst experience DJing out I’ve ever had. 12" and touch platters are just so much more predicable in their performance.
I can’t imagine Denon Prime becoming any sort of booth standard with only a 7" rotating platter. Actually, I can imagine the possibility of just having that option in the booth scaring DJs off. In contrast, I don’t see a touch version or a full size 12" hybrid deck being an impediment to getting installed in the booth or convincing DJs to play on them if they’re there. The latter (hybrid 12") would be a huge advantage: less gear than VL12 and SC5000s in the same booth, and if you can’t work 12", do you really want to call yourself a DJ, anyway? On the plus side of the M, if you practice with 7", then 12" is a breeze.
One last point on a 12" hybrid deck: the high frequency roll-off becomes less glaringly obvious in the short term, as most MM carts can’t do much over 16khz, anyway.
Anyway, what’s the likelihood of installation on the SC5000/SC5000M? Probably low to begin with. Options are good. Maybe this is an iterative step to even bigger things with even greater market penetration and ability to become the next booth standard. There will be people who’ll buy the M. Maybe two as practice decks wouldn’t be such a bad investment… agreed especially if the cue/scratch drift is gone from the 5500 and 3700.
To be successful DenonDJ needs budget players. Otherwise the Prime series will not find its way to the booths.
I’m definitely not a fan of hybrid btw. They can skip that development for me.
@Reese To be succesfull, Denon needs to start work on getting their >insertcorrect4letterwordhere< together. They havent even commentet on any of the posts since they released the M-edition yesterday. A bunch of comments from people who has spend over $6500 on equipment thats not fully functionel without “workarounds”, but not one single comment from them.
No more new developments before the base is 100% functional or else #changetherider will not happen.
I postet the announcement in a danish Dj forum yesterday, 4 minutes after the release of the SC5000M and NOT 1 positive reply yet - they are all like “Engine doesnt work correct yet”, “Look what happend to the NS7!”, “Does anybody in InMusic even speak together”, “To long wait on updates…” and so on and so on… (even the dealers) Its a shame to see cause I truly see the vision they have with the SC5000… but they need to focus now.
Sorry but #changemyrider will not happen for most. All DJs are in a “safe” ecosystem for more than a decade.
So what will a starting DJ buy, if they don’t have the luxury of a rider and need to adapt to what’s in the booth? …one guess…
For me, these are the best players around with a solid mixer to go with it. Business wise there aren’t many that will make the same choice. A friend of mine knows this DenonDJ hardware is better (and didn’t care for the software), but “had to choose” the current standard.
I definitely(!!) agree that they need to step up and make faster updates, Engine function and stability; and yes more communication. And in my opinion, not in the “Chloe” way; nothing personal btw.!! There needs to be a new “Gee” or more of a “Paul” that will comment on what’s coming soon.
If they want the clubs and dealers to take them serious, they need the baseline to be 110% functional. If clubs dont buy their stuff, bedroom djs are not going to buy their stuff either, not even cheaper models, cause thats not the brand at the clubs. But overall we are at the same page - more and faster action!
Yeah, that’s similar to my point about needing to keep the number of products small and get them working really really well, especially not heading into bracketing or budget stuff. InMusic has a history of abandoning designs, even as it’s close to getting issues worked out. Axis 8 and 9 were abandoned just as they were getting reliable. They figure out problems with the power supply sections screwing up the laser system, and then, boom, they’re gone. They finally figured out the hardware issues on the PPD9000 (like hot gluing the boards and reinforcing the front channel selectors) and dumped the design altogether. Another dead end. Throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping eventually something will stick. Disposable product lines. Go have a look at Numark’s legacy section. On and on it goes. Take a look at the companies they’ve acquired and you lose track of how much they’ve immediately discontinued. And then there’s Ion el cheapo stuff, on and on with that… Focus on the right product and get it right, not a never-ending flow of gimmicks, feature brackets, price brackets, etc, etc, ad nauseam. Reputation and standardization are both built on a small number of products that work very well, not mass proliferation of brackets marketed to. That perhaps might be a luxury long after both have been won.
Why are you not a fan? In the case of the M, you have an $1800 turntable that is only 7", doesn’t have a tonearm, and must share space with traditional turntables. Other than mobile wedding DJs and/or people bringing their own gear everywhere that want to minimize weight, what do you see as a downside to a hybrid 12" unit? I can’t think of a single downside for an club installation, assuming the RF emissions could be made low enough to work with most phonographic cartridges (let’s ignore unshielded Grados for a moment that have problems on multi-voltage Technics and the TTX). No mechanically/acoustically noisy CD mechanism to worry about. 12" is easy to work with and goes back to the beginning of DJs. You can play both 12" and 7" on such a unit. Seems like the X2 and CDT-05 just came out too soon… before the era of flash drives.
Any suggestions where the screen and all the buttons should go?
I am in limbo about this one. On the one hand I think: WOOHOOO … nice! On the other hand: Is it REALLY for me???
I think if motorized vinyl were really my thing, I’d gotten the SC3900s instead of the 2900s when I did. Or I’d held on to my SL1200s and gone DVS.
Then again, these are controllers through and through with a LOT more options than your SL1200s in a DVS setup. For me the 7" form factor wouldn’t be a big issue. Sure 12" is nice, but easy to see that wouldn’t fit in a million years. And trading-in the center display for motorized vinyl is certainly not gonna deter anyone (provided they came up with a good solution to show loop size and such elsewhere as that is more important in the center screen than cover art or DJ logo imho).
I think what needs to happen, as I hope to be moving closer to a prime setup in the months to come, is that I get some hands-on on the M-version. Also curious how it behaves with the motor off.
Will keep an eye out for all you fellow forum members that are going for one or more of these and reporting on them here.
I can see a setup with both two non-M and two M-versions for a bit of both worlds for those with deep(er) pockets.
I’d put the screen in one of the bottom corners.
Not a 7" touch screen with surrounding buttons You’d end up with a unit twice the size of the current ones. Bit awkward I think
Twice the size of current what? The 5000s?
O.k. Don’t laugh Bare with me on the quality of this… a very rough sketch, and the Vestax-like j-arm was originally swung to the opposite side of the deck and shaped wrong. The tonearm is still too long on this (about 9" in real life from needle to center pivot?) and the pitch fader too short for 100mm.
Everything would need to be slightly more spread out than this, but you get the basic layout from it. You have to scale up a 8.5 x 11 to the real size prior to spreading everything out, though. A rough scaling based on the screen and platter on the sketch, with 1.777 as the multiplier, the life-like mock-up’s paper dimensions become 15.11" x 19.55". So maybe spread that out by another 5% to give everything more room, like the tonearm base that’s admittedly cramped? That’s 15.87" x 20.53". That might not be enough, but let’s go with that for a moment.
The smallest Super OEM TT is about 14.5" x 17". The Numark X2 was 14" x 18". A 1200 is 14.2" x 17.3". Area on this Prime hybrid is thus 325.8 sq in vs 246.5, 252, and 245.6 sq in, respectively. Comparing 325.8 to 246, the difference in area is 79.8 sq in and the hypothetical Prime hybrid is 32.44% larger. For reference, the SC5000 is 207.9 sq in area. So you get a big savings in area use with the Prime hybrid over TTs plus the SC5000, and this Prime hybrid is neither twice the size of a normal DJ TT nor even the SC5000. Yes, it is larger.
I believe this is doable from a layout and space standpoint. Not sure about RF, but there’s always mu metal. A layer of that between the platter surface and internal rubber on the VL12 platter design might go a long way to protecting the cartridge from the power supply and other electronics. The touch screen, which has potentially been an RF issue with picking up smartphones’ emissions, is on the opposite side of the platter from the cartridge.
You clearly gave this some serious thought. You never know, it might just fall on the right ears in the product development department.
I wonder how many people on this forum are open-format DJs like I am? This is a wonderful attempt at trying to pull hip-hop/open-format DJs away from the Pioneer platform. I am very, VERY excited for this. I still want some software improvements to Denon Prime, however. But it’s making it harder and harder to pick Pioneer over Denon Prime even with the software advantages.
Yeah, if you look at the picture down on this page: https://denondj.com/prime-series you can see the VL12s are already deeper (in scratch mode) and slightly wider than the SCs. Now imagine adding all the buttons and the screens (we can keep the fader that is already on there) and I think it will outgrow the booth real quick.
Thank you everyone for your feedback! Any American users on here, if you’re visiting DJ Expo this week you’ll get to see the SC5000M in the flesh!
There’s a lot of wasted space it seems on existing turntables due to just trying to stick to the 1200 layout.