SC5000 High End Roll-off


#150

Thank for contribute to this topic Kade it’s cool to se we are not some few Dj who have a problem with that ! 139 messages later and it’s still a big issues with my pair of Dynaudio BM12A Speaker… 2019 are coming and i’m certainly sure the remplacement of the Pioneer Nexus 2 Denon need to fix it’s bugs


#151

But mainly all from just the same few people , not 139 people.

I would like it adjusted, as long as it can be without sacrificing other features or loading / searching times , but like allot of people , I’m seeing lots of other ideas that should get priority over just top end


#152

Sound quality and stability > *

Extra features are worthless if the basics are not top notch.


#153

Exactly !!! People forget about that how much it’s important


#154

The frequency response in an audio product is of prime importance. It’s like saying the car can reach 200 mph but only does 150


#155

I’m actually slightly more concerned about the limiter and aggressive, sonically-degrading processing that’s on all the time even when keylock is off and the no “disable Elastique when keylock is off” bypass option for this than I am the particular frequency response. While the frequency response affects my headphones annoyingly and also the recording and streaming path, I tend to use a lot of EQ on a system, anyway. While I’d like the response flat, the limiter and aggressive-sounding non-bypassable processing are not something I can mitigate at all, and there’s no real way I can sort of rationalize it the way I can with the frequency response by, say, pairing the SC5000s with some warm-sounding phono cartridges and activating a CD horn EQ, or something. So losing the limiter, putting in the -6dB pad, and an option in preferences/settings for “disable Elastique when keylock is off” I would rank above the frequency response in importance. If AIR is pushing up against some processing bandwidth or memory constraints of the SC5000 hardware (which is a sad but unfortunate possibility) and the FS setting in Elastique V3 is the culprit on the frequency response, then it may take some finagling and time anyway for them to trim some other fat off the proverbial code elsewhere to get us that top extension back without causing increased lag or glitches. However, these other three points should be possible to implement very easily.


#156

Just guesswork


#157

An InMusic employee in this thread admitted to a compressor/limiter in the processing of the SC5000. There are spectrum analysis tests that have been done you can see higher up. And then there’s the citation of the Elastique V3 SDK on the FS setting used to lower processing and memory requirements that when set to 3 would cause exactly the high frequency response we are seeing. I have transparently admitted to which areas we are making assumptions and doing guesswork, but for you to just dismissively imply it’s all just guessing is insulting and disingenuous.


#158

So Reticuli, if I understand you correctly, we could have the following scenario: Denon intended to set FS=1/2 which would equal to a -3dB cutoff of 24kHz, which would be in line with the tech specs of the SC5000. For reasons we can only guess, they then had to set FS=1/3, which leads to the -3dB cutoff of 16kHz we actually observe.

If something like that was the case, it would mostly boil down to the processing power of the SC5000. That would be quite hard to fix. Optimization and things could be possible, but just as well we might have to wait for the next generation of players.


#159

As the creator of this thread it’s been such an interesting time to watch it grow so big. To see people dig more into the technical details. I remember thinking I was crazy for what I was hearing. I just couldn’t understand why the CDJ2000NXS2 with the same exact cables sounded better…crispier and less muddy. My recent show overseas even the manager of the nightclub noticed it. “what’s wrong with the sound? can you bring up the highs?” - Of course when you’re cranked up and people are there it’s less noticeable but it’s still there in terms of fidelity. Is it limited to a track by track basis? Somewhat. Some tracks sound better than others but as a meticulous collector of music (non audiophile) I would say that all my tracks are pretty high quality and consistent sounding with mastering etc. I really hope this gets addressed or can be addressed via software. Will it stop me from using the players? No but as a big fan I would hope that we can overcome it. And majority of the audience simply won’t notice it at high volumes. Anyone know of the SC5000M exhibits the same sound issues?


#160

What annoys me is that denon responds to all other topics but the most important like this one they are perfectly silent except two or three messages to sweeten the pill ! I’m pretty sure that issues will not be corrected until the next generations of SC5000 MK2 like @beatom say


#161

It could be FS=3. It could also just be a frequency-specific limiter, in which case the -6dB processing attentuation pad would resolve not only the need for the limiter, but also the low-pass filtering we’re seeing. If it is the FS setting, the processing throughput savings are not huge, anyway.


#162

so thanks guys, as I wrote before in one thread in the mcx section, till now I had in mind to add two of the new 5kms to my mcx 8000, and right before i opened this thread, I was almost sure to leave the mcx8000 alone, and go full prime adding the x1800 too. Then, after reading this, I opened in ableton some sets recorded in the last days, added some meters (youlean, span, ozone elements, and a classsic EQEight from ableton) and as you can immagine the filter was there, cutting at 18k and arround. After 18k there is a massive lpf cutting off everything. Tried to high shelf +12db, but the filter just laughed at it, so I tried in real time with a noise signal at -20db, same thing as before, The first time I used an 1073 as preamp, and the second time just with the apollo, nothing. Even the stock NOISE effect packed with the mcx was cutted off without mercy after reaching 18k. so if before an hour i was almost sure to buy and upgrade, now I don’t know what to do, I really think to getting back to vinyl+ah96 or giving a second chance to dvs and traktor, There is always the ddj-rzx who is waiting for more from the first day we met, I really hate pio and their overpriced hardware, but they have candy… I mean… rekordbox.


#163

If you’re DJing in your bedroom to an audience of one then this is important but if you’re DJing out anywhere then no one is going to be applying a third octive active notch C-weighted doodley flip filter from the dancefloor.


#164

I have high confidence it’s resolvable in firmware. I’d stick with them if I were you.


#165

Imagine how happy I would be to see in the next update " Sound quality improved for the player SC5000 Prime" High end roll off is now corrected :smiley:


#166

Doubt if they will call it that. That’s accepting that the sound was bad at launch.

It may be framed as such

Option to disable “whatever is causing it”


#167

Yes this is what i say to @Reticuli before it’s a marketing thing ! but i’m afraid that denon prefer to do nothing and keep their mouth shut rather to agree to correct this problem what do you think guys ? maybe after more than 1years it’s time to resolve this in the next update ! please Denon team bring us good news tell us that your engineering team can solve that…


#168

Possible, as it is not as a fault or thing to need a repair or fix


#169

I would be more confident of Denon DJ fixing this in a firmware, if someone of the team would actually acknowledge this thread by replying to it.