My argument with a Pioneer Product demonstrator (Good for a laugh)!


#1

Heres a copy/paste of the argument I had with Matt Play of Pioneer DJ on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hHtkFN4jPs&lc=z12kfrritznljfdfs22qxv4x1oj5ttihd04.1489685254893744), please enjoy!

Matt play: (apologies the guy didn’t know how to break things into paragraphs) Pioneer paved the way for this player. Where has Denon been the past 10 years? Reverse engineering Pioneer’s work… That is where. Rekordbox and NXS2 has a little thing called “My Tag” browsing… Look it up. Very powerful stuff. Nearly everything said in this video Pioneer has been doing! NXS2 can browse harmonically (but it also shows related key matches). NXS2 can browse by BPM (but also a range +/- the BPM). NXS2 has loop rolls, slip mode, beat jump, memory points w active loops. So you can swipe left on the Denon to a prepare folder?.. NXS2 you push the tag button. So on the Denon you can push the QUANTIZE on screen?.. NXS2 has a QUANTIZE BUTTON. Linking, loading custom settings, master tempo, Serato HID (Pioneer also has Traktor HID), torque adjust, layout, GUI… All Pioneer’s creation. Denon just had to say… “Oh I guess we need to do all of this too so we might stop getting our butts kicked” Rekordbox is an ECOSYSTEM. Rekordbox DJ is for EVERY TYPE OF DJ. It does DVS w vinyl, Video (even karaoke files), Pulslocker, archives vinyl and CDs. Plus it is plug-n-play with the Pioneer mixers and decks already installed in nearly every DJ booth around the world. Rekordbox has an iPhone/android app so you can sync your music to your phone, work on beatgrids, cues, loops and playlists on the go, then update that info back to your collection wirelessly. Plus you can plug your phone into a CDJ and it behaves exactly like any other rekordbox prepared drive. Beginners can buy a $250 DDJ-RB and get going on rekordbox, then export and plug into a Tour-1 system. Continuity across the entire range. Don’t forget all of Pioneer’s other products. XDJ-1000, RMX-1000, Toraiz SP-16 & AS-1, DDJ-RZX, KUVO, full line of DJ headphones, studio monitors. While Denon is scrambling to to bring a product to compete. Pioneer is in the lab working on the next round right now. Before you call me a fanboy, I’ll tell you I am the number 1 fanboy.

Rick Charles: Matt! Can a single CDJ2k Nexus Play 2 tracks simultaneously form 2 completely separate audio outputs on the back of the player? No it can’t, but the Prime can; meaning the young broke guys coming through the ranks would only have to purchase 1 player in order to gain familiarity and confidence with what could be the new standard and what they could be standing behind at a venue or festival. does your CDJ 2k have 8 performance pads or 8 cue points… another valid question for the aspiring or someone such as yourself, or 3 loop modes or rolls with triplets… I could go on. Hopefully your now curious enough to go and read the specs and do a little homework on this new Denon kit, because honestly… It’s pretty good and I wouldn’t bother telling ‘Pio’s no1 fanboi’ if I didn’t think it would be worth your while.

Quantize and beat grids were taken from DJ software who had being doing it for a long while before Pioneer jumped on it, Needle drop was a direct copy from Numark of all brands.

The first iteration of Rekordbox was a copy of Denons Music manager for the HS5500. Now granted the current Rekordbox is much better than Engine 1.5 but Engine prime has been built from the ground up to be used with the new multi-core processor powered Prime and is not out yet and therefore judgment can not yet be passed. Although I do wish they would hurry up with that release…

You then proceed to bang on about search functions Matt…none of these are revolutionary or indeed invented by pioneer; in fact any Media player from any brand worth it’s salt will have this and and the likes of Serato/Traktor/VDJ had being doing it for years before either Denons ‘Music manager’ or Rekordbox came along…So moot point.

I’m not a fanboi to anything but I do fancy myself as a bit of a crusader. Frankly the Pioneer monopoly needs to end. It’s not good for anyone except shareholders. Good competition will boost R&D all round and give people more choice, while also bringing Pioneers prices back to down to earth, which is good for everyone. Competition is good for your industry.

Matt Play: NXS 2 is a DSP piece of hardware. With the prime player you are getting a CPU tablet with a MIDI controller piece built around it. We will see how it stands up to the rigorous environments it could face. All that is un-proven. We will see. Denon has had the dual player feature forever. Its not new. The industry never cared and one dual deck will not be the same as having 2, granted much cheaper. Rekordbox is FAR superior than any other software as far as cataloguing and browsing. The my tag feature is like nothing else and the possibilities are endless. Plus all of those settings export to your device and are available to filter by via the touch-screen on NXS 2. I would rather have a physical hardware button for most controls rather be on screen. Yes NXS2 has triplet loops in slip-mode. You do have access to 8 hot cues on the unit (2 banks of 4) I find that usually the first 4 is all I need. And I like the extra real estate a result around the pitch fader. That is where I have my hand when beat matching. Just like with Technics 1200’s. Denon has always put tons of buttons around the pitch fader and I feel like Im playing a game of Operation while beat matching. If I want more Hot Cues at once I can plug in an SP1. However Pioneer has Hot Cue Banks. I can load 8 hot cues that reference 8 completely different tracks. Plus 10 memory points which I can set as active loops. Pioneer had music management software long before rekordbox. Pioneer was industry first CDJ. Pioneer was industry first flash media export player. Pioneer is in the lab cooking up rekordbox 5 and then next player while Denon is scrambling to catch up to Pioneer’s level. I would have more respect for Denon if they weren’t now owned by InMusic and it wasn’t for their whole marketing strategy of paying people to use their products. It should be #wewillpayyoutochangeyourrider You say Pioneer is a monopoly that needs to end. I find it ironic that people bash on Pioneer for proving to be THE MOST DEDICATED to the industry for the past 20years. Pioneer earned their spot in the market. The industry was for the taking and all manufacturers were neck and neck years ago… Why did Pioneer prevail? Because the circuit industry wants one consistent reliable platform.  Show less

Rick Charles: (He had edited his prev reply, hence a couple points wont make sense) Matt Play… Product demonstrator for Pioneer DJ …

First of all Matt a DSP is a type of CPU but I get what you are saying ‘My this hurr CDJ has the same technology as this hurr Toaster oven’. Denons multicore processor on the other hand can analyze and play 2 tracks simultaneously without the need to ‘prep’, as well as load all cue points simultaneously. It’s just better and faster hands down.

LBL has now done 2 live shows without a hitch on the Denons and Oakenfold seems happy enough to do his entire world tour on the Denons, so surely Matt both these renowned DJ’s must have at least some faith in the Prime Series. From what I have heard Denon have also put the sc5k in an oven and tested it as well as other vigorous test. Indeed we will see, something does at least have to be given the chance to prove oneself surely?

Your absolutely right Matt! Denon have put a laptop in a inside a stand alone controller… Isn’t that what the industry have been asking Pioneer to do for years now… Instead of the same overpriced, slow incremental changes the industry has been force feed and endured… Christ it’s no wonder LBL and others are changing their rider.

2x banks of 4 hot cues is not as intuitive as 8 multi-coloured backlit buttons init sonshine? Triplets only available in slip mode on the CDJ’s… Can do it any time you like on the Denons Matt! You should try it sometime if you can get over yourself and your employer that is.

Too many buttons around the pitch slider? Please Matt, Your scraping pretty hard here, desperate even I’d say.

Are you saying Matt if your customers can’t afford the nexus set up, they should just buy a $200 Wego… You jest surely? If Denon prime does indeed end up in a few clubs, Guys can get away with paying £1400 for a single club standard player that will play 2 tracks at the same time for you to practice and gain confidence with what you would be using when your out… The Pioneer equivalent… £4000. Go on Matt Justify that to your customers, you money grabbing toads.

Credit where it’s due Matt! You right again! 2 interfaces are better than one! Except when you have to pay and additional £2000 for the second… But you wouldn’t know what that’s like now thou would you. 2 layer operation was not well understood in the past, Denons marketing wasn’t very good back then. But lets see Pioneer try and release the next nexus without this feature… I dare you and your ilk at Pioneer HQ actually.

Paying people to use Denon? What have Pioneer been doing all these years? What? You don’t like a level playing field? GTFO. Your taking the ■■■■ mate…Moot point indeed.

Denon trying to catch up to Pioneer? You do realise your trying to say ‘My hurr plastic toaster oven is better than that durr metal/glass Laptop inside a controller’ Take the rose coloured glasses off mate and be man enough to give credit where it is due. Gemini have literally copied the CDJ 2k… You can buy one brand new for £300

Again…Credit where it’s due Matt! Pioneer have been the most dedicated to the industry over the years… Dedicated to milking and fleecing the industry and young kids for all their worth. But you keep telling yourself that whilst peddling your plastic fantastic.

I really don’t know how you sleep at night Matt Play. Stick to Dj’ing and try and find a more honest living as a day job.

As for me after doing the research I’m really impressed with what Denon have done here, so much so in fact I wouldn’t mind carting a player or 2 with me if needed. I’m really excited by the possibilities.


#2

Ha! He’s deleted all his comments now. Maybe he’s handed in his notice and about to #changeyourrider.


#3

I once saw a panel of judges who were presented with the task of judging three or four DJ products which had been nominated/shortlisted by magazine readers.

All the units were demo’d and the judges were allowed to ask questions of each of the Product demonstrators.

Then the voting came up.

One of the judges simply said, “my vote goes to the pioneer, coz urm well, coz it’s a pioneer init!”

That’s part of the wall that’s being torn down now with the Prime products.

Get the Nexus2k mk2 … and a Denon DJ SC5000 Prime, cover up all the logos and branding and the Denon is simply the more advanced, more powerful, more modern and more technologically advanced player.

That said, there’s still some of that wall remaining.


#4

Well… I was at BPM one year and James Zabiela was on the DJ mag judging panel… He was still working for Pioneer at this stage. So much for impartial.

Unfortunately in this game, you have to deal with the lowest common denominator a lot of the time. They don’t understand ‘features’ and specs. They don’t understand that competition in any industry is a good thing and translates into better features and prices for them. They only understand image.

Denon just need to keep doing what they are doing and getting the right people onboard. A lot of these guys will change their tune once a ‘celebrity’ tells them its ok. Just like sheep really. Oliver Heldens for example is already starting to brandy around the hashtag #newindustrystandard … That must really get at the core of the pio diehards or at least put enough doubt in their minds to think that maybe Oliver is onto something.


#5

I wonder if that guy who was still trying to defend his old corner, and others who have said that things will never change, have heard that Tiësto has announced today that he’s ditched the older technology, and is using Denon DJ SC5000 Primes now :trophy:


#6

I can’t help it, but it seems (once again) that mainly Dutch DJs are at the forefront of embracing new technology.


#7

Hey now, this Canadian DJ is trying! If Denon could nudge the shipping department to hurry my order along… hehe


#9

Ok, let me rephrase that: … mainly Dutch major headliner DJs … :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

Now, now… Don’t make me start quoting Austin Powers: Goldmember at you… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But seriously, I’m happy to see some top level talent adopt early. I don’t like that the “showy” and “glam” factor matter so much in our industry these days, but c’est la vie, and as long as it does Denon might as well do it up. Kudos to the marketing team - let’s hope it keeps rolling.