Midi Sync/Midi "START" question


#1

Hey guys, I’m running Maschine alongside my Prime setup and I’ve noticed a new problem I must solve. I can tell the X1800 to send midi clock, and tell Maschine to listen to it over USB. Easy. Maschine in slave mode shows the tempo. However, I cannot figure out how to send a “midi start” signal from the X1800 to the Maschine app. Any suggestions?

Also, when I adjust the tempo with the SC5000, Maschine doesn’t seem to notice the updated tempo. I tried to re-tap the midi button on the x1800 (between the engine sync and utilities button) it seemed to trigger a low C note in Maschine, in a growly/echo sort of way.

WEIRD!

Any suggestions are appreciated.


#2

So just to confirm, when you start playing a track on from your SC5000 and the respective channel on your X1800 is active, Maschine doesn’t “listen” to the MIDI BPM sent from the X1800 and/or doesn’t properly quantize when playing the pads on Maschine? Also, when adjusting the pitch fader while the track is playing on the SC5000, Maschine doesn’t act like a Slave in that it doesn’t follow the Host (X1800) tempo it receives from the SC5000? Is that all correct?

Have you tried connecting the two directly via MIDI Cable (5-Pin Midi Out from X1800 to Midi In Maschine)? I have found that, when combining hardware/synths/etc. for the purpose of syncing tempo, a direct MIDI connection is the most efficient means to go about it rather than MIDI via USB. Give it a shot and let me know if you have any luck.

Cheers.


#3

Maschine listens to the tempo when you hit the “MIDI clock” button, but any subsequent adjustments in tempo on the SC5000 do not translate “live, on the fly” to the Maschine software.

Additionally, I cannot simply find the “START” command on the mixer or the player that will tell Maschine to, well, start playing! When Maschine is in slave mode, ready to sync, it’s just on idle because it’s not receiving any start commands.

I tried this first test with my Jam only - as for live setups it seems to make sense to bring the simple, small controller with only a single USB cord to run direct to the X1800. I’ll try again with my MK3, but every new cord I introduce to the setup is one more step away from a simple, clean, reliable live rig.

MIDI and audio over USB sold me on the Roland AIRA stuff initially - and I assumed it would be just as easy to accomplish from the Denon to my Jam. Back to the testing table.


#4

And to clarify - any further tempo adjustment will sync to Maschine IFF I hit “mid clock” again to update the signal. That also triggers a midi note, somewhere in the C1 or C2 realm, which is audible in maschine.


#5

Over the cables (using mK3) the tempo did update on Maschine as I adjusted on the track - although I still find that the master tempo stays the same as I adjust the tempo on an SC5000 layer, even with the master mixer Prime Connect lit - so for total tempo sync of an active deck I need to twist the knob on the tempo fx to the active channel, vs just leaving it on the master… Weird.

Also, still no way to say “START” to Maschine. It just sits idle.


#6

Still no word on “how to tell the X1800 to send START commands to external midi devices” ?


#7

Silly question I forgot to ask earlier: did you enable “Sync To External MIDI Clock” from within the Maschine app?

Just throwing out ideas. Also, hit up the Native Instruments Maschine section of their forum when you get a chance. You’ll find that there are many users with similar problems with regards to getting Maschine to properly “listen” to incoming MIDI tempo from external devices.

@Gee_DenonDJ may be able to shed some more light on this topic.

Cheers.


#8

Oh yes, it’s all configured correctly. Sadly, the “start” buttons are disabled in sync mode.


#9

Just jumping in here. I’ve been doing a little reading regarding MIDI for connection with Resolume that i’m planning. I’m by no means a MIDI user as this will be my first venture using midi clock.

HOWEVER, I think I read somewhere at somepoint that the midi clock on the x1800 is sent based on what BPM the FX channel is currently selected. Please anyone shoot me down if I’m incorrect, as I said tonight will be my first attempt at using / playing with the midi clock.


#10

I’m seeing that as well. Now I’ve tried to sync Maschine MK3 (over USB and over 5pin), Ableton (also, over either) and my Pioneer Djs-1000. All three units can “see” the tempo and they jump to the proper BPM, but none of them will receive a START command from the X1800. Not when I hit play, cue or anything else on the players & also not when I do what’s on page 11 of the manual - hit the MIDI CLOCK button. Nothing happens.

Are you getting a different experience?


#11

I’m afraid i’m not reliant on the Start/Stop as for what i’m requiring, just a BPM value is adequate.

Can confirm that pressing the Midi button on the controller did stop (and then resume once pressed again) the midi signal, but that’s not of great use to you from what I understand you require.


#12

Right. Did you attempt to force a device to start with the press of the MIDI button, just to see if it would work, or is your setup not possible for that type of test? I’m still awaiting some sort of word from Denon on this.

Thanks again.


#13

The best I can give you info wise is:- whenI turned off the midi from the X1800 my bpm counter within Resolume dropped to 0. When I enabled it again it slowly rose to the bpm of the playing track.

Sorry I can’t give you anything else!


#14

That’s fine. I appreciate the help! I’m really hoping the issue is resolved soon. I was going to purchase a second X1800 - to chain them together for 8 total audio feeds - but with the MIDI issue I’m sorta at a standstill, and looking at other possible solutions.


#15

Instead of asking for hardware to have a specific midi output command, isn’t it possible to have a mapping created in the software that will start midi as soon as it recieves any midi command from hardware?


#16

I have Live configured the same way I’ve always had Live configured - the same is true for the other pieces of hardware. They all “start” when I hit the appropriate button for any other master source. Just not the Denon X1800.

I’m open to suggestions I’ve missed, but so far no help from the Denon folks has arrived. Even if we figure out the workaround, the X1800 is supposed to send a “start” command when you hit the MIDI button and it seems to not be doing so.

Thanks for the help.


#17

so is it possible to configure ableton to start as soon as midi bmp info is recieved or only midi start command can do that?


#18

Yes, with M4L (Max for Live) or with MidiPipe: https://www.heise.de/download/product/midipipe-28614 MidiPipe can be programmed with applescript.


#19

Only MIDI-Clock Start or Stop command starts and stops Ableton Live. You can start and stop Ableton Live with any MIDI controller, here a video of my beat-counter connected to Ableton Live and synchronized. The 8 buttons on the lower part of my beat-counter can send MIDI-statements. I can jump in the timeline 1bar or 8bar and start/stop Ableton Live.


#20

The START command should originate from the mixer, when the user hits the MIDI button, as described in the manual. It is failing to do so. I have no other configs to make in Ableton. Every other piece of gear I own manages to send the command. It’s sad.