[Feature Suggestion] Line based visual beat matching, a way to unload tracks.


#1

Hi there! I have been putting in a ton of hours on my sc5000 players and x1800 mixer. I have also been letting every DJ in my city use them side by side with Pioneer 2000 NXS2 players, and everyone (including dubstep, house, D&B, and vinyl hip hop djs) thus far has agreed that the sc5000 players are far superior to CDJs.

However, there have been two gripes that everyone has had. Pioneer cdjs have a line based beatmatching phase meter that allows for easy visual beatmatching (ive attached a picture). I use headphones so its not a big gripe for me, but every dubstep dj (haha they cant mix by ear) has complained that the “bubble” based beatmatching meter is not easy to use. All jokes aside I do use the phase meter a lot when mixing music like dubstep and I would like to see a line based one introduced in the future if possible.

Another question I have is, is it possible to unload a track from any of the layers on the player? i haven’t) been able to figure it out if it is possible and it would be nice just to de clutter the screen when you are done using the second layer, once again just a small gripe but it would be nice to see it implemented.

[Line based phase meter](https://www.google.com/search?q=pioneer+phase+meter&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinnoDA3YDfAhWEv1QKHRKBCYsQ_AUIDygC&biw=1740&bih=839&dpr=1.1#imgrc=XduNJjgfJlDPsM:


#2

i ask this phase meter feature since the beginning and now no answers from Denon Team !


#4

+1 on the request for active beat phase even when sync is not active.

But the beat matching lines like on Serato or CDJ2000NXS2 will be sweet. They are more accurate than the phase meter.

The question is if its possible to add that to the GUI or even if the GUI can be updated to reflect future functions? @AIRVince is this possible?


#5

This is entirely possible. I would be curious to know what you guys would expect the when more than one other deck is playing. Thoughts? :slight_smile:


#6

Don’t understand the question @AIRVince ? :grin: could you be more specific ? It’s really a cool feature the new “line meter” from Pioneer and in my opinion this is an essential feature missing :slight_smile:


#7

You should have 3-4 meters, because of the multiple layers. Don’t know how Pioneer implemented this, but I suspect it only shows the “master” phase and the deck your adjusting to the “master”.

Who’s the “master” deck on a Pioneer set without sync enabled? The highest/only open fader on a DJM?


#8

Without sync enable it’s not related with the fader @Reese i think the masters deck is the first CDJ when you press play or cue


#9

I don’t think it should be tied to Master or Slave, because this will require sync to be active and we don’t want that.

It should just indicate that the beats are lined up using the peaks of the tracks.

Serato style that doesn’t depend on sync/master.

Upper Wave line can be Deck 1 with Wave line of the 2 layers super imposed. They can be color coded to match the layers.

Lower wave line for Deck 2 with the layers superimposed as well.

This should be duplicated on both players with no need to reverse the order.

E.g.

Player 1 (Left Player) should be the top wave line(s) irrespective if one is looking at Player 1 or 2’s screen.


#10

This is really cool ! I hope we’ll see that in a future update of 2019


#11

I like the idea of it, and for years it was the best part of Serato, but moving to the Denons, what I’ve loved is going back to my ears and not looking at screens all the time. This runs the risk of “Serato Face” coming back, albeit on a smaller screen!


#12

@AIRVince

This is an image of how Serato implemented it.

The lines are dynamic and change is real time depending on Tempo of the track playing

The brilliant thing about Serato’s implementation is that it is independent of the BPM detected! Even if bpm of the track is wrong the Beat Matching Display is accurate as it uses peaks of the Audio instead.

So even with non quantized music e.g. old funk and soul you can see that the lines drifting or even abruptly changing in situations where the time signature of the track changes E.g. for 4/4 to 3/4

So with a simple nudge in the appropriate direction you can correct and even see/anticipate the drifts before it happens


#13

Sorry, but this has to be put out there: if you add more training wheels cheats and crutches and newb stuff like phase meters and don’t give veterans the ability to hide and customize on-screen info, Denon DJ is not part of the solution but part of the problem and this laptop-like tendency, even in an expensive turnkey solution for people too lazy to bother with laptops, is going to hurt the Prime system in the long run as people figure out laptops are less unreliable, complicated, expensive, and incapable as they may have believed.

So I am not entirely discounting the market benefit of more on-screen info, but if you’re going in that direction, please don’t forget those who want even less… and the ability to Owner Lockout. We need options, too, and I can guarantee we’re going to be around on standalone gear long after the others have moved on (or back) to laptops.

I do, however, unreservedly agree with the request for being able to unload/clear unused layers/tracks and generally (and somewhat related to the above) declutter the screen. It is possible to bizarrely toggle twice the layers option with shift+layer and get the same effect, but that’s a bit much, IMO. I think the shift+layer button should instead simply clear the unused background layer when it is not playing rather than change a hidden utility/preference option. Obviously if a track is playing on that background layer, this should do nothing.


#14

My 2 cents; don’t shoot me…

I kinda don’t get this also. The need for all possible visual aids to mix correctly…by the eyes? What about the ears? Why display all this stuff when in essence the sync button screams to you from the corner of the room? So this is for tracks that have half or double the bpm that cannot be synced, I guess.

I even cannot unsee the bpm value to seduce my pitchfader position the right way. It should be possible for some of us to turn stuff off completely. Okay I feel old :wink:


#15

Maybe Denon can include an option for the purist …the Library only display with No other info displayed but just Crates, Artist and Title.

No BPM reading, No Key, No waveform, No overview, No Tempo %, Just Track Title and Artist.

Clutter free experience.

Or better still an OG Vinyl Mode ie no Hot Cues, No Hot Loops, No beat jump, none of the fluff

Just Play, Stop, Next Track, Prev Track, FFWD, RWD, Pitch up and down.

The visual aid is not for mixing double time or half time…It’s the back bone of peak hour hip hop/urban quick mixing when you don’t even have the time or free hands to touch your headphones.


#16

I guess it’s good to just have the options available for people and whatever methods they use to put on the best shows they can. But I agree it should all be user-configurable!


#17

Absolutely we still need to see pitch as the pitch resolution even with the old increments was not quite full 14bit, meaning it was still possible to move the fader a tiny amount and it not do anything. Digital gear with analog-like performance is the goal, but if it’s not quite yet there, you need the on screen info to see if you’ve had an effect when you made an input (in this case, a fader nudge). Not to mention soft takeover.

Also, Key is essential on screen info. If there was a single mode for this, that should not be removed.

Ditto with the whole static waveform at the bottom for seeing where the breakdowns are at and jumping around the track by touch is fine. This has precident in vinyl, so such a mode might as well keep that.

It has been suggested to call this “Retro Mode”, but I’m fine with it just being various customized user options/utility/preferences that cannot be implemented if Owner Lockout is in place. If I lock out these on screen info and sync with Owner Lockout using the serial number underneath, you’re going to play on the units as I see fit… with your ears.


#18

Absolutely we still need to see pitch as the pitch resolution even with the old increments was not quite true 14bit absolute highest possible, meaning it was still possible to move the fader a tiny amount and it not do anything.

I really hope that Denon are working hard for the pitch resolution for 2019


#19

There’s a movement of clubs towards no-laptops, but there’s a hypocrisy in how it’s currently being executed considering the industry standard is nothing more than a turnkey laptop system for the rich and lazy… with some goofy quirks like jog bend deadzones and godawful pitch resolution. Robin Leach might want to trademark that. “Welcome to Lifestyles of the Rich and Lazy, I’m Robin Leach.” Not sure celebs would let him in the door, though.