Engine Connect integrity


#22

Brian,

I keep giving this same reply in different topics :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:, but could you change the right player to ethernet 3 and change the player numbers, audio cables to accommodate how you have your channels setup.

It looks like you use AABB for ch1234. So you only have to change the ethernet cable which is now in 2 to ethernet 3 and then make the left player number 1-3 and the right 2-4 via EngineConnect. Audio cables don’t have to be changed.

Curious how that works out, so let me know.

Richard


#23

Ahhh, I see. My cases with UPS & Such are probably between 14-24" below the Media Players & Mixer from the top most unit to the lowest. That seems like quite a bit of space, but I think your idea is worth exploring. I’ll wait to see what the engineering teams says.

Thanks, Brian


#24

I can see your frustration - that would be incredibly annoying. Apologies if I, or someone else, already suggested this before as I haven’t reread this entire thread from the top, but does the problem continue without the X1800 in the link (you directly plug the players into each other)? Might help determine which piece of gear is causing the trouble.

Also, the way you have the network cables connected to the back of the mixer don’t match the suggested setup in the manual (see page 4). Assuming the config setting in the mixer has been left at auto, it may be getting confused about what player is where in the chain.

Just some ideas. Hopefully tech support will have a few more too.

Good luck!


#25

@VVEPBrian I feel sorry for you Brian and can understand you get frustrated.

Like others maybe a suggestion that you already tried out but I would go back to basics, i.e. test the most basic setup, at your place. just hook up the SC5k and the mixer nothing else, nothing out from the X1800 just your headphone and see if the same happens.

Like suggested by @ToddOddity connect the players directly with each other.

I really hope your problem gets solved ASAP.


#26

I have used the units in my studio, and do not seem to have any problems there. That gives the theory that higher EMF levels on location underneath or around the players is plausible. At home I just plug them into a cheap power strip, and use a single QSC K8.2 as a monitor. So there’s a lot less of everything all around.

I will be back at the venue this Saturday. I’ll connect my player that’s on the right side into Ethernet 3 on the mixer, and make sure any corresponding settings are correct. At home I’ve connected it the same way shown in the video and I don’t seem to have any issues.

I might also steal the tin foil from the kitchen, and put layers of it on the bottom of the table to shield EMI/RFI.

Thanks for all of suggestions, I’ll report back.


#27

Just as a quick idea - do you label your SC5000s? So that when you get to events you can be sure that you’re always putting the same player on the same side.

If the issue is simply a poorly network port on one of the players (if) then you won’t spot that all that easily if that player is sometimes on your left or sometimes on your right, from event to event


#28

I keep their cables in the case, and the one on the right has slightly longer cables. So I do always put them on the same side. It is the one one the right that almost always seems to be the source of the problem. I’ll put a label on each to be sure I don’t ever pack it wrong, and even try swapping sides to see if the problems move to the left. Obviously the issue is such that when it’s not working it affects everything, but it’s always the one player that I’ll notice the Master Light cutting in and out even when it’s the only deck playing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the other player do that.


#29

I’m back with a video from my office. Part 1 shows the same behavior as my last video, where hitting play on the second player caused the Master designation to immediately swap decks.

Part 2 shows what’s probably happening that is making the struggle real when I try to beat mix. A song playing on just one media player seems to need to align speed with itself, shifting speeds in the process. One could see how if the Master Player designation is changing at random from one deck to the other, and the player is trying to realign itself with not only the other deck when it’s set to master, but then even changing speed to align with itself after Master status switches back…

Happy for new ideas, or for someone to point out something silly I’m overlooking or not understanding.


#30

I turned off the equipment, then fired it back up again to try a few other tests. After turning it back on and loading the same songs. “It’s Tricky” was no longer losing it’s Master status on the right player when I hot play on the left. However, as soon as I hit any of the saved Cue buttons on “It’s Tricky” while it was playing, it immediately moved the Master status to the other player.

In short, I tried the same songs on each player - swapping sides and testing. Certain songs seem to exhibit behaviors inconsistent with others.

I realized the speed changing phenomenon when jumping directly from one loop to another is normal. It’s simply speeding or slowing itself to maintain beat alignment with the song as it was previously playing. That makes sense, because if other decks are synced to this one, you’d want it to shift back and fix itself so they all stay aligned.

Sorry for the video about the loop speed as a deck problem when it’s not. I’m just tired, and getting frustrated.


#31

What happens if you connect the decks with the Lan direct to each other? Just using the mixer as a analogue mixer with the RCAs.

From my understanding the deck playing longer should be the master in sync scenarios but then when you loaded the new track your master went to the new deck so that’s different behaviour.

Try having keylock off for that loop toggle and see if that makes any difference. I did hear the speed change of Billie Jean but the BPM stayed the same.

Can you try with the loop toggle with a modern track, something new.

What bars did you have the loop on Billie Jean, I have 2 SC5000 but no X1800 I can give it a go and see if I experience the same behaviour.


#32

it really sounds strange and getting the impression that something is wrong with 1 or both decks.

Do you have the same issue with Billy Jean on the other player?

Connections: what I notice is that the left player is on network connection 1 while the “RCA” are in 1 + 3 and the other player uses connection 3 while these “RCA” are connected to 2+4.


#33

I had been using the right deck connected to Ethernet 2, but was trying it in 3 as per an earlier suggestion. I thought using 1 & 2 made sense, but I’m guessing the suggestion was based on the fact that if you actually connected 4 devices, you’d likely have 1 & 2 on the left side of your mixer and 3 & 4 on the right from the front.

I have just made a significant discovery this morning. It appears that the only time I get errors are when I’m using saved hot loops. Almost every problem I’ve been able to recreate with a certain degree of consistency, I am unable to replicate if I avoid using saved loops. (Notice in my videos, I am always using a saved loop)

The saved loops were all created in Engine, and they were all done with the same quantize settings enabled. (So I don’t have a manually created saved loop with slightly different durations, they should be, and appear to be identical to using the auto loop knob)

However, if I use the loop button/rotary knob to set a loop - the beat drifting, master deck swapping, and sync button flashing - it all goes away. This is when I’m putting the on the fly loop at the exact same in point, and duration of the saved loop.

At my event Saturday, I will avoid using saved loops and I’ll have about 3 hours worth of DJing to test this thoroughly. If all issues are related to the use of saved loops, am I the only one having these problems?


#34

That’s what I suggested. Eth2 is normally for ch1-2 but with layers switched B-A.

Eth1 is for layer A-B on ch1-2. Eth3 is for layer A-B on ch3-4. In essence ABAB scheme.

Like me Brian uses and connects the audio in AABB scheme, so he only needs to change the player numbers to 1-3 (left SC) and 2-4 (right SC).

My experience is that connecting the eth2 to the second player is just “wrong”. Auto config works correctly when using 4 SC’s in single layer mode (ch1234 is eth1234). But if you use 2 SC’s the mixer will get a signal from the left player for ch1-2 to be A-B and from the right player on the same ch1-2 to be its B-A layer… just a matter of which player is powered up first. To omit this you need to use eth1 and 3. That way auto config always “fills” ch1-2 and ch3-4.

If you disable layering on 2 SC’s, then eth2 does work because ch1-2 will be layer AA (so to speak).


#35

This past Saturday I had one of my media players just completely freeze up and require a hard reboot three times. Video link below. My question is this - does anyone else have any problems like this? It’s gotten to the point where my wife is weighing in that I can’t keep wasting my time testing. As with most things, she’s probable right.

Not sure if this forum is the right place to get handed off to the RMA dept., but I think it’s come time to say the players themselves need to be closely inspected, repaired or replaced. Thanks.


#36

I feel with you and hope that Denon will take a closer look at your units. Just one question… couldn’t you use layer B on the right player instead of VDJ or is that also messing with you? Ohh and have you tried: Left player, layer B on mixer channel 1 Left player, layer A on mixer channel 2 Right player, layer A on mixer channel 3 Right player, layer B on mixer channel 4

Asking this cause I think I can recall I had some sort of trouble with the 4 beat bar ‘sync’ when I had my setup like you but after I switch to 1B - 2A - 3A - 4B I havent had that issue.

Hope you get it sorted out m8.

//Kim


#37

I had some weird stuff happen recently and I decided to just delete the Denon or Engine folder or whatever it is from my big 2TB drive. That fixed it. I didn’t have anything like that occur previously and didn’t pre-analyze, so I’d figured it might have something to do with the database and analysis files it’s been generating and not just keeping in the RAM but saving to the drive, and that hunch seems to have been correct. I’d like them to add a read-only mode to stop saving stuff. If they ever get all that database and analysis working well, then people can just pre-analyze and save cues on a computer ahead of time. Constant writes to Fat32 isn’t a great idea due to its non-redundant, fragile director/table system, anyway. Also, a read-only mode for NTFS is certainly possible.


#38

I suppose I could have used Layer B on the working unit. I don’t ever use the additional layers, so it didn’t occur to me to go that route.

Prior to buying these I watched countless videos of DJs using them at festivals, and from that my impression was that they were Rock Solid reliable. My DJ business has evolved into doing a decent amount of production work in my area, and we setup sound systems for DJs that Syracuse University flies in for events. Every time their rider is for Pioneer CDJs with Pioneer or Rane mixers. I’ve never felt the need to use Pioneer. Never had ill-will, but I always had the impression that they were popular simply because they were already popular.

However, I’ve never once seen any of these DJs struggle with the gear. They plug in their thumb drive or connect their laptop and simply DJ. I get the CDJs from another rental house - they look a little beat, have shitty looking cords that get shoved in the cases…but always work. I too would like to focus on my music, my mixing and mostly the guests…and not on my equipment.

So I’m hoping that someone from Denon will message me, and offer a quick resolution. (Just reading my current post I am realizing I’m transitioning from optimistic problem solver to frustrated & bitter)


#39

I think that my final test before I go nuts is to put a very small amount of music on a very small drive just to see. I’ll put like 100 songs on a 1GB thumb drive. As it is, I don’t use anything like a 2TB drive. I bought two 256Gig USB3 thumb drives, and I also put 32Gig SD cards with an essential collection of music in each player. My thinking was that god forbid I ever forget my thumb drives, or something happens to them, the SD cards stay in the players all the time as backup.

I play off from one USB3 drive most of the time, and it contains a collection on it that it’s no bigger than necessary. The second USB3 drive I put tons of music on, and I rarely use it. I’ll get a request from time to time that I can swap to that drive, find and play the song, then go back to my main stick.

I have already tried to play from the 32gig SD cards at one event, having each player use its own local card instead of the card from the other player. I still experienced all of the problems shown in my earlier videos, it did not fix or change anything.