Disappointed by Engine Prime Analysis


#23

It’s a bonus if implemented, I feel the technology to achieve this is baked in already it just needs a bit of icing.

Its not do or die but they should keep improving BPM analysis and if users are able to expand or contract beatmarkers space we can correct wrong BPM easily.

That’s the most important reason to improve the beat grid edit functionality to me.

Mixing disco/funk by ear isn’t an issue to me.

I play Hip Hop RNB as well and many tracks have wrong bpm. I’m not just referring to 60 bpm calculated as 120.

I Have 85bpm tracks showing up as 115bpm

During set I scan through my library sorting by bpm. I don’t do pre planned set,


#24

I’m on phone as well, almost bed time :grinning:

I’m seriously rooting for Engine Prime and I hope the good folks at Denon + InMusic understand that we are all giving feedback to make this product great.

@Reese this is the button I’m talking about.

This YouTube video also explains the feature.


#25

I replied to two of your posts guys, but for some reason the replies won’t show up. Every time it says the posts have to be validated by an admin first? First of all I’m not saying the device is useless. Of course it’s still fun to use and I really want Denon and the product to do well… that’s why I got on the forum in the first place. I could’ve just soled it and moved on. I want it to develop and stump the Pioneer players… I’m a vinyl DJ and the sc 5000 is just an addition to my vinyl setup. So of course i don’t need grids at all. Still I think that this is the point with a digital player. This is one advantage it has over Vinyl so it should at least properly work. In my mind a good solution would be a grid analysis function assisted by AI. I’m sure it would learn pretty fast if it was fed with data from all manual beat grid edits by the users. The bigger the Engine Prime user base, the faster the algorithm would learn how to perfectly analyze those grids. No idea if this is feasible though haha :smiley: Anyway… I hope Denon doesn’t mess up. They basically just have to come to the forum and read all the great ideas users have had on here. Many of them are easily doable and the majority of them is not funny stuff but really essential functionality! Sooooo, fingers crossed!


#26

That’s exactly right. This function exists in Rekordbox and is essential for any unquantized music. If the algorithm allows it it might even help with the analysis of more complex quantized music. In my mind it would be ideal if the grid analysis algorithm could be AI assisted and if it could learn from other Engine Prime users manual edits of the grids. I’m sure grid analysis would be pretty flawless in a short time with enough Engine prime users feeding the database. No idea thought if something like this is feasible though haha :smiley:


#27

I really really hope Denon will listen to the users. I read such awesome feature ideas so far. Many of them easily doable and most of them not just funny stuff but serious improvements. Denon basically just have to implement the stuff coding wise. No need to even come up with any realization ideas. Fingers crossed a lot of stuff will happen in the future. Also they announced the new sc 5000M which is pretty much identical and would run the software so i hope that’s enough of a reason to really improve on the software side of things!


#28

They removed my post,saying it was inappropriatel. I guess we’re not allowed to speak up about deficiencies in the software anymore.


#29

@SonnySeven - once again welcome to the Denon Dj Forum. Its kinda like a relationship in here… you got to either kiss some **** to be allowed saying your opinion or just wrap it up in alot of nice words on the way :rofl: I’ ve had alot of struggles on the way with Denon crew… But hang in there m8 - one day they might listen to the things we ask for - communication etc. :crossed_fingers:


#30

I think a forum like this should not be censored, neither should every post need approval by a mod. I wonder what your post was about?! :smiley:


#31

Approval is usually only when a link is posted.


#32

Even Denons #1 endorser makes fun of the not functioning beat grids. XD


#33

having wrong beatgrids is as old as beatgrids themselves. i don’t know of any software that always gets it right. fixing them where needed is just part of the preparation.

that said i’m of course not against improving them but what matters is the percentage. how many are off and how many are right?

usually the more “uneven” the track the higher the chance of misses. this is just a natural consequence and happens with every software.


#34

No one says that it’s gotta be spot on every time, but:

-the percentage is too high. I’d say about 15-20% of my tracks are off -we need proper tools to fix the grid -coming from Pioneer and Rekordbox I never felt the need for a better analysis algorithm albeit it was off sometimes too. Just very rarely.


#35

fair enough, 20% is too high. if you wanna test it properly you could take a bunch of tracks, clear all tags and then run them through rekordbox and prime. the more tracks the better the average result.


#36

What I have done (and don’t do anymore because it’s a b*tch and time-consuming) in Ableton is tighten up the first and last 32 bits of an old track and leave the rest in place. This gives you a good window for mixing in and out (and if you have long-ass remixes you could tighten up part of the break as well - remember to mark it with a cue point in your software), while maintaining the original “swing” of the track.

Some DJ Pools offer special intro/outro adjusted versions where the above is done for you already. For my kind of mixing that is plenty. While I don’t mind manual beatmatching and nudging the jogs when needed, I am lazy enough to enjoy it when I have 32 beats to do the transition once the tracks are in sync (manually or through the button).


#37

yeah that’s how i do it as well. i only tighten up the parts i wanna use for mixing and for the rest i just set one marker at the beginning and end to keep things in check roughly.

that way it’s faster to do and also preserves some of the track’s original vibe.


#38

When the beat grid is amiss on my tracks, it’s usually by the factor of 1.5 - I just need to multiply the analyzed bpm by 1.5 and adjust it a bit here and there. For some tracks of course the grid is just completely off and I need to do everything manually. What really lacks is the beat grid adjust on the player.


#39

Was he making fun of the software or the song structure? I honestly thought he was making fun of the song structure.

I want flexible beat grids so I can properly grid transition tracks in the same way I can with Serato and Rekordbox. It’s the only feature I really want implemented.


#40

I honestly don’t know. And you are right, flexible grids would be a god send.


#41

Not too fair a comment Kim… I for one have communicated offline from here and out of hours to try and maintain good communications.


#42

@paul_denondj - sorry, but you are missing my point. Its regarding ‘on-going’ communication about whats going on… its about 2 months ago your update messed with the hotcue function and still no fix and nothing about how far you are in the progress. Thats not good enough. (when to expect this issue fixed?)

And your forum is full of posts where people are asking for an answer from a Denon member, but still un-answered after months.

I know you Paul have been writing me directly on the couple of issues I have had, but honestly I feel that the only way to actually get a real answer is to tag a Denon member in a text or write them directly.

And i’m not the only one feeling like this - you can see that in the forum aswell - but in the end it feels like we are getting ignored.

I’m not a hater - love my setup and only wants Denon to succeed, but some basic things a missing before they can do that.