Anchor Post - All topics about the next stage of Engine for MCX8000


#23

Engine 1.5 already does that (in a way). You connect two SC2900/3900 players and a laptop/netbook/ipad with a LAN(wifi) hub and the players “pull” songs either for laptop hdd or usb sticks, Engine just serves for browsing and loading tracks. With Engine Prime, for the thing you propose to work, all the mixing, fx, etc must be done inside the software. I’m not sure Denon did such a huge leap and made Engine Prime a dj software under it’s skin (although, there is a crossfader now placed between two decks so who knows what’s inside…)


#24

The problem for me it’s “THE DENON MCX8000 IS PRIMARY A SERATO DJ CONTROLLER”. I buy it primary for ENGINE and not to use it with a laptop. ON ENGINE I just need grid adjust for a concret use of sync, roll and slicer.


#25

My issue is this - the hardware limitations that may exist on the controller itself could explain why some Prime features won’t work (maybe you’ll never be able to edit the beat grid of an Engine track live on the 8000 controller, or do detailed track searches with keys filtered) and that’s fine, as long as the things it is supposed to do work flawlessly.

BUT…

Arguing the the new software isn’t compatible with the 8000 is silly when in the next breath they talk about it being entirely new and written from the ground up. If it was written from the ground up, then writing in an option to export a Prime database to an Engine 1.5 database could have been coded in. All it needs to do is strip out the features the older versions don’t have and save the database accordingly. Backwards compatibility isn’t rocket science.

It concerns me a little that the importance of having the entire userbase on one piece of software isn’t recognized. Look at the mess that was the Serato ecosystem until they finally moved everyone into the one “DJ” platform. Even Pioneer recognizes this and keeps the option there to export your RB database for older units.

Obviously there may soon be a time when they have to abandon pre-buyout hardware. That ■■■■■, but I kind of get how that might be, but the 8000 is too new to not be part of the same ecosystem of gear coming out just one year later.

(For what it’s worth, I’m not saying the as an 8000 user feeling left out. I’m saying this as someone who has put down the cash and bought into the new Prime lineup, but doesn’t want to have to completely redo my prep work when I want to join a friend at a mobile show and play on his 8000.)


#26

Currently any guesswork about what’s replacing Engine 1.5 is just that. Obviously everything will become clear when that replacement is made available.

Conclusions have jumped to above about Timelines, however it may not have been the case that Engine Prime development or coding/database formating etc only started after the MCX was released.

The mcx8000 can, and is, used by many as a standalone media player. Other people use it as a midi controller for Virtual DJ or Serato. It’s primary role, and therefore also it’s secondary roles will be different for different users.

Sure, people are keen to get the next thing up from Engine 1.5, and yes I’m one of them, but I wouldn’t want it pushed out in haste before it’s ready.


#27

Slay, that feature doesn’t work with the MXC8000 though does it? And of course, it’s still Engine 1.5 which in my experience is very unstable, frequently analyzes bmp incorrectly and is just not a reliable platform. I’m really hoping for something good for us early adopters but my instincts tell me not to get too excited.


#28

I sympathize with your frustration. I think the controller was hyped and marketed in a somewhat deceiving way. I know that your workflow might not permit it but if you can, give Serato DJ a chance. You really are missing out on the best aspects of this controller. In my opinion, it’s the cream of the crop bested only by Pioneers SZ2. And only because that has dual USB. As I said before, Engine is best suited as an emergency backup.


#29

Exactly, that’s my point. If it doesn’t work with Engine version that has that option it means it’s a hardware limitation. As I said, the only way to bypass that limitation is to make Engine Prime a full DJ software where MCX8000 would function the same way as with VDJ/SDJ but only control a different software.


#30

That Make sense. Thanks for the insight. I guess it’s a wait and see game.


#31

I have to say after reading the above posts and other fourms i was ready to buy into the 8000. But from what im reading it doesnt do what it says on the can. So heres one guy that has been put off buying. Pitty seemed a great bit of kit. Maybe the MKII .


#32

First post from you whizzster, and unfortunately straight in with a negative - but let’s start a conversation about what are the points that concern you so we might have an opportunity to put your mind at ease and perhaps reconsider your decision.

The MCX8000 is firstly, an advanced (and alongside the MC7000) and still the most capable Serato DJ controller. It’s secondary, though still obviously very important function is as a standalone USB player. If you’d be kind enough to list your main concerns, the staff and community here will be able to offer input. Thanks


#33

From my very humble corner of the world, two things pop out at me.

  1. multiple people reporting screen/control freezes, both in standalone and controller mode. Apparently it happens a while into playing, suggesting either temperature issues or something (running out of) memory related. This could be within laptops, but certainly there is some kind of embedded OS running inside the box that utilizes memory, even in controller mode. Some guests I had over to test the 8000 suffered this problem too. In that case running Serato in 4-deck mode, and running it hard. Haven’t spent time trying to replicate the problem myself yet.

  2. Engine not being a very good, stable software and lots of uncertainty what the status is with regard to Engine Prime in combination with the 8000.

On point 1) lots of the support questions are centered around laptop issues. This is clearly not relevant when encountering this problem in stand-alone mode. Also, it seems a wide variety of laptops are involved. Even if the problem is with the laptop, it’s still nasty. Best would be if someone would be able to replicate the problem, rather than it being a random occurence, giving the techies something tangible to work with. Is there something like a debugging option a user could activate the moment the problem occurs?

For the second problem, personally I’d be happy if the Engine Prime softwarecan be used to prepare sticks for the 8000 and it being more stable and having more,better options than current Engine. Hardware limitations in the 8000 are clear.

Just my 2 cents and change.


#34

Hi Whizz!

Thing with toiling through forums is that you will always pretty much only find problems because well… Forums are one avenue people take to try and find solutions and vent. In this particular case I think you would also find that a lot of the guys who have posted here have posted elsewhere also, making it seem like a few more peeps are having problems than there actually are.

My friend/ Dj mentor back home for instance does large mobile events around Auckland NZ. He uses a MCX8k with a very basic/stripped down gig dedicated tower I built for him last time i was home for hols (i5,8mB, win 7). He uses this to run Serato and his lighting software. He works weekly usually 8-12 hours (sometimes more if the moneys right and the venue allows). He has not had a single problem! He loves it and swears by the thing (mind you, it is his first controller, he was still using CD’s before that… I finally managed to convince him to move on from carrying 5/6 crates of CD books with him everywhere)

However… Imho, for now I’d get something cheaper like a 6kmk2 or mcx7k or even the (my pick) new 808 Roland and wait. Denon have just put a multi-core processor in their media player line, if all goes well like it seems to be so far, then I’m sure that processing power will make it’s way down to at least the very top of the next controller/all in one line… This will remove a lot of the problems with laptop controllerism in general as you will have a proprietary piece of kit with the power of a laptop dedicated to the true cause…To rock the party. The possibilities are vast.

My £3.50 (It’s nearly lunch time)


#36

4 posts were split to a new topic: Posts From Chino when he waa here


#38

Quite a few good discussions going on elsewhere on the forum but I’ll just add this.

When we call this brand new forum “Your Community” it’s not just some lovely cute cuddly generic phrase, it really does mean something.

Let me paint you a quick picture, with an aerosol can … PPPSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHP

Imagine your local neighbourhood… clean, tidy, quiet, low crime rate, loads of education, everyone chats, talks, helps each other - to me, thats a community. Now imagine one morning, you walk down to the local store and find that some nasty individuals have graffiti’d dozens of nasty rude words and some very biological pictures on the huge brick wall opposite the kids playground.

Instead of the local janitor going out there with a bucket and some chemicals and spending the next week trying to clean the offensive scrawl off the wall, he’s joined by another member of the neighbourhood, with a bucket and a stiff brush… and another neighbour turns up with a bucket, and another and another… before long, as a community working together, the wall is cleaner than people even remember it, and the kids, and the community dont have to have things that offend them shoved in their face every day. That’s a community.

Here too, we want to build a community (stay with me…) , We will undoubtedly have a wide selection of genuine users, with genuine queries, and lots of genuine Denon DJ gear owners, with genuine questions.

On the old forum, we used to also get a lot of Trolls. The sort of people who would run into Mcdonalds and yell “I hate Big Macs”… possibly whilst wearing a Burger King Uniform…cough cough… And yes, we would also have those who logged on, PRETENDED to have a Denon product with a problem, but actually didnt own any Denon gear at all… they’d just read about one person have problem A, read about another person halfway around the world having problem B, and then they’d come onto the old forum and claim, falsely to have a piece of equipment with problems A and B…and would rant off in as much detail as the two people he’d read the stories about, gave.

Being an official forum, we can check serial numbers now… worldwide…(But dont put your serial numbers on-screen please !!!)

Now…Back to the community… Yes, this new forum has Moderators, and sure they’ll delete any of those Big Mac yelling Burger king type people post…and they’ll get rid of any spam that gets in about funny blue tablets, fake designer hand bags, long lists of $2000 cameras for $40, spammy pictures of girls really not wearing very much whilst “relaxing” etc etc.

But EVERY single one of you can help to remove horrible, irritating posts also… as part of our community, and you wont need a bucket of soapy water.

On the bottom of every post that anyone makes is a flag. Yes, flagging something does alert the moderation team… but, one of the great features on this new forum is that if an irritating post gets enough flags from you, the members of this community, the post is removed without any moderator intervention needed at all. Hey, even across the 3 timezones the moderator team covers, even we still need our beauty sleep… some more than others…cough cough.

So if some rival burger joint worker comes in here dissing your burger…Flag it… If someone posts up about Gucci for a dollar…Flag it… If someone posts up pictures of fleshy shapely nimble…(slap me someone…I’m dreaming!) Flag it… and you will have contributed to cleaning our wall.

Still here? Thank you !


#40

You’re jumping the gun. Engine Prime hasn’t even been released yet - it has been stated it is next up to be released, and then 1.5 is due for an update.


#41

Possibly, but given the fact it’s not released is the time for them to consider including changes in it now or have a dual equivalent release.


#42

On that point you are very much mistaken. I’ve had many guest dj’s that plug their memory sticks into the 8000 only to discover their best tracks are not supported due to them being 48khz. Many people use 48khz as their preferred sample rate - especially when the source may be (for whatever reason) video. This is a totally whack limitation & is a major problem for anyone who has more than a single dj playing on the 8000. Please consider all potential situations before slamming this as nonsense!


#43

I think he said it from a tehnical standpoint and I agree with it, 44.1kHz is a standard. It’s a totally different thing that many people (including myself) own a shitload of 48kHz mp3 files and are too lazy to convert them.


#44

There’s No discernible difference for either the DJ or the audience between the two sample rates.

There are some nasty processing considerations when a soundcard is frequently presented with multiple sample rates though - and extra processing could mean extra heat and extra milliseconds in terms of latency etc

Plus, just like all the precious similar discussions through the ages of DJs claiming (as if they were on the final question of “Who wants to be a millionaire?” That they could tell the difference between a WAV file and a 320kbps MP3 etc … there’s the “weakest link” aspect… to explain…

… I met a DJ a year or so ago who had spent thousands on his Burr-brown audio fitted this, his Ultra ultra low this, 5000 midi buttons, his £600 pc soundcard, the EL stylus rather than the AL etc and then £1/€$ 1 per metre cheap tatty speaker cable and ran a mixer with poor headroom which he often ran into the red … shrug


#45

I agree that we wouldn’t hear the difference in quality. However the fact is that many people do have 48khz files in their collection. Extra heat, processing & latency from working with different sample rates, points to poor design & component selection. As an audio manufacturer, Denon should take things like this into account. Why not add this limitation to the new Prime series & see how well it goes down? What would their excuse be for that? We skimped on the processor & memory to save a few bucks? Denon knew that they could never de-throne Pioneer by trying to force everyone to convert all their files, so they made sure the Prime series can handle anything that is thrown at it. If the 8000 is incapable of playing 48khz files due to hardware limitations (which it certainly seems), rather just say so. Trying to convince us that it’s actually our collections that must change to accommodate the gear is the wrong way to go about it. Go tell that to Laid-back Luke, Oakenfold & Oliver Heldens & see their reaction.